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Phenom 9850 questions

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
I recently came into a phenomx4, particularly the 9850. If you look at my rig you will yell at me, but I don't care. I NEED to use this 125w cpu in my little bitty 95w board. lol Anyway, on to probably stupid questions.

I recently moved from a dual core athlon to this cpu, and was wondering some things. First, the multiplier is unlocked on these black edition cpus (primary reason I wanted to use it) So I turn down the mult and voltage as far as it will go 8x @ .950v.. But this thing seems to keep the same heat no matter how much power is run through it. Is this the nature of this particular beast? Or Is there an issue w this one? It idles about 98F (havent run stress tests yet to determine stability of under/over clocks, just checking and making sure it actually works for now). Ill update here for stress temps once I run those, but thats later. My athlons (plural, used a few different ones) all seemed to run about 80F idle and ramped up to about 110F under full load (including GPU and memory, to trap as much heat inside the case as possible) I know that 4 cores will always run hotter than just 2, but a full 20 degrees at IDLE?! Im unsure if this is an issue or normal behavior?

Also, performance-wise what can i expect in comparison to the 5200 dual cores? If I run the 5200 at stock 2.6Ghz, what would the equivalent in number crunching capability be from the 9850? I think I should be able to underclock it a bit and still outperform the dual core, but where would be the equivalence?

What would be a good sink to use to put this thing down back where my dual core ran in temp? I'm looking bare minimum in cost and modification of case interior. I believe there is a close comparison sink in my rig specs down there. Except instead of just one fan, ive got 2, 1 push and 1 pull.

Further info, yes to fresh thermal compound (its not AS5, but I've found it more than adequate, considering when I clamp down my sink, much of the cpu heatspreader has enough compound remaining that I can still make out words on it. ) Yes the fans still work. No, nothing else has changed, not even wire routing. Yes it's all clean inside: living in Arizona, I have to clean the inside of my rig and fan blades once a month MINIMUM. Heatsink is tower style with 3 heattubes and copper base. Dimensions roughly 3.25" x 2.75" (guestimation, but pretty close), so not the biggest; but I got it for FREE, so I can't really complain.

Thanx for the input guys. You have been so helpful in the past, and I am looking forward to it now and in the future.
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post #2 of 14
the athlon 64 series were definitely hot chips, but they for the most part could handle heat. get a cm 212 or the like, especially if you want to overclock. the extra L3 cache on the 9850 will give you a performance boost over the 5200.

your max is around 60c for those chips.
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post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
HA, that was quick. Thanx. So I ran 3 orthos "overnight" (not really since I had to get up 5 hours later) with no errors. I guess that missing pin is just something simple like ground or power. Best thing is, @65F ambient, the max temps were only 105F, so I'm guessing that while this agena runs hotter at idle, itll also handle its power more efficiently than the brisbanes did. I'll start turning it back up to stock speeds (possibly overclocking, as one review set I saw did OC this chip with this board and didn't have issues until around 3.2Gig) and see what happens with this cooler. If it remains the same, then yahoooooooo, if it gets substantially hotter: new sink here I come.

Edit: removed stupid question cuz I should've checked first. lol For sure I've got a BE cpu. WOOOHOOOOO FOOOOORRRRRR FFFFRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ha
Edited by imtheman0313 - 2/18/13 at 5:33am
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post #4 of 14
e5200 vs 9850

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/29?vs=66

Also u can run a 125w cpu on a rated 95w board, its just longterm the capacitors won't be able to take it and say 6 months to 12 months from now it could just shut off and never turn back on even if you didn't overclock it. It could even run more than a year in some cases but eventually things like your southbridge will start to malfunction and degrade from random power spikes.You will get weird blue screens of death errors and not be able to figure it out with any test. As long as the board is just a cheapo 50 dollar one I would say go for it if your on a super budget. The key to keeping the board going is have a fan blowing on the mosfet/vram to keep it cool. A high RPM case side fan could be a cheap way to keep it cool.

a cheap cooling solution for the 9850 is the stock Phenom II Heatpipes HSF and some Artic Silver 5. AS5 will help significantly on a Phenom I compared to the cheap white stuff u might have. If its the offbrand silver type you are ok in my opinion. The white ceramic stuff is garbage.

I personally prefer MX2 as it is cheaper and it can be used on gpus as well

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120939147307?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Edited by dlee7283 - 2/18/13 at 7:27am
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post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlee7283 View Post

e5200 vs 9850

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/29?vs=66

i think this is what op is talking about.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/29?vs=32
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post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 
ohhhhhhhh, icic. So theoretically I could run this thing at something like 60%, down to the 95w the board can handle stably, and still probably outperform my ol brisbane. Neato speedo guidos. Very helpful site, that. So now its jus fiddling w the fsb to oc the ram back where it was and find the happy points w the mult and volts to get it down far enough. Min power state for this agena is apparently 64w, so going down to 95w should be a nonissue while still retaining gaming ability and crunching power when I need it. Maybe I'll get something to oc in realtime to get speed boosts when I need it and downclock to reduce power and stress when I don't.

Thanx for the help guys.
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post #7 of 14
Thread Starter 
Yes, separate post, very soon after the last one. On purpose....shhhhhh. Update for temps. @ 230fsb x10.5 (2430Mhz) Idle temps are around 125F. Soooooo, until I get better sink, down down it goes. We don't want no overheatin on 'ar hands hoss.
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post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by imtheman0313 View Post

ohhhhhhhh, icic. So theoretically I could run this thing at something like 60%, down to the 95w the board can handle stably, and still probably outperform my ol brisbane. Neato speedo guidos. Very helpful site, that. So now its jus fiddling w the fsb to oc the ram back where it was and find the happy points w the mult and volts to get it down far enough. Min power state for this agena is apparently 64w, so going down to 95w should be a nonissue while still retaining gaming ability and crunching power when I need it. Maybe I'll get something to oc in realtime to get speed boosts when I need it and downclock to reduce power and stress when I don't.

Thanx for the help guys.

No problem.

A Phenom 1 is still not a bad chip, when it came out it just wasn't as good as a Q6600 and most Core 2 Duos outperformed it in gaming. Got a bad wrap but I always found them on ebay for cheap because of that and used them for friend builds who were on Pentium 4/Pentium D's. I owned practically every Phenom 1 X4/X3 so I have had alot of experience with them. Even owned the B editions of them lol.

However the Phenom 1 has a new life with Windows 8 as it is very responsive having those extra cores for multitasking and being better optimized than Windows 7 so its better than the mid range Core 2 Duos for HTPC at this point IMHO.

I have a 9150e @1.8 which is 65w and it is very responsive with an SSD. Also good for movie encoding.

Just took a good 4-5 years for this processor to find its sweet spot but it finally did lol. The 9850BE would probably do better in BF3 than the Athlon II X2 if I were to make my guess.
Edited by dlee7283 - 2/19/13 at 10:39pm
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post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Update again. I just put a wire in the hole for the missing pin. Seeing if anything has changed. So far nothing much. Had some memory errors the other day, but lowering the NB freq a tic helped that. I'm a bit more wary of upping the NB voltage than I am CPU volts. CPUs I can get a dime a dozen, decent mobo for oc, not so much. I'm also going back up to stock speeds (possibly beyond) veerrrrrryyyyyy slowly. I'm currently at 2.3Ghz 210x11 @ 1.025v About to run tests and check max temps. Will update for any interested in a bit
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post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlee7283 View Post

a cheap cooling solution for the 9850 is the stock Phenom II Heatpipes HSF and some Artic Silver 5. AS5 will help significantly on a Phenom I compared to the cheap white stuff u might have. If its the offbrand silver type you are ok in my opinion. The white ceramic stuff is garbage.
I've actually done just as well with the Arctic Silver Ceramique 2 stuff as I ever did with AS5. The generic white stuff is next to useless, but the Arctic Silver version works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlee7283 View Post

No problem.

A Phenom 1 is still not a bad chip, when it came out it just wasn't as good as a Q6600 and most Core 2 Duos outperformed it in gaming. Got a bad wrap but I always found them on ebay for cheap because of that and used them for friend builds who were on Pentium 4/Pentium D's. I owned practically every Phenom 1 X4/X3 so I have had alot of experience with them. Even owned the B editions of them lol.

However the Phenom 1 has a new life with Windows 8 as it is very responsive having those extra cores for multitasking and being better optimized than Windows 7 so its better than the mid range Core 2 Duos for HTPC at this point IMHO.

I have a 9150e @1.8 which is 65w and it is very responsive with an SSD. Also good for movie encoding.

Just took a good 4-5 years for this processor to find its sweet spot but it finally did lol. The 9850BE would probably do better in BF3 than the Athlon II X2 if I were to make my guess.
I bet it would, too. I just mentioned this on another thread. Software developers, including game developers, are writing code that takes advantage of multiple threads. By targeting quad-core CPU's, they're giving something like a Phenom X4 a lease on life that it never really had when it was in production.

A dual core is pretty much the bare minimum for anything today, and a single-core CPU is next to useless. Last fall, I replaced the single-core Sempron 3800+ in a friend's computer with an A64 X2 4400+, and the difference was like night and day, much more than the PR ratings on the two chips would suggest.
     
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