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[Hexus] MSI teases gaming motherboards to rival the ASUS ROG series - Page 26

post #251 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by General121 View Post

my point..? It disproved most of what you said

No it doesn't.

All it says is some kids know enough about computers to overclock and build their own systems at a young age. Which is fine but we all know this, it's not difficult. Did yours comment anything to do with what my comment was about? Nope. You missed the entire point of it. Which is fine.

My comment was about a totally different demographic. Typically the type that don't lurk around here and think the name and looks of something are more important than how it performs.

I'm going to assume you're quite young yourself otherwise you wouldn't have taken offense to it and felt the need to defend it. Which is fine but obviously it wasn't since you know a thing or two about computers.

Regardless this is off topic.
    
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post #252 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSIalex View Post

This series was not reengineered from scratch. We made an existing product better...

I don't see any reason for anyone to object to this, and Hexus reported the expected street-price premium to be in the order of £10-£15 which to me looks like a palatable price for the upgrades, maybe even just for the the look of the board for those that are into the the theme.

On the specific features: gaming ports I don't find offensive, but unless they can somehow force ultra-polling on keyboards that don't support it then I wouldn't like to think a price premium had been added to the board. Killer NICs are not something I would seek out particularly or want to pay extra for, if it only adds a few dollars vs Intel NICs then it's tolerable, but I will say that due to problems in the past I have stuck to my strict policy of only using and recommending boards with Intel NICs. The Dragon theme - well OK if your marketing team really think it's going to work. I don't like this type of thing, I just find it patronising toward gamers. At least it's not over the top, but if I ever choose a G-series it will be despite the dragon theme, not because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSIalex View Post

we were looking for ways to offer a product that filled a niche: motherboards oriented towards gaming/gamers that were not looking for overclocking.

I think this is completely valid, the only thing that I find surprising is that it isn't already the typical approach leading to the widest choice of components with the OCing features being the smaller market with a narrower choice of products.

What I don't understand with MSI specifically is why the company doesn't pay more attention to the look of the 'standard' boards. The black and blue scheme is awful, these colours don't complement each other at all, the black and blue on dark brown PCB is just wretched.

I would really like to see much better looking boards across the range and if a finish could be applied to the PCB similar to how it's done on the MPower and G1.Sniper M3 (which from photos looks like it might be a little better quality finish than MPower) that would be a huge improvement and something to set apart from other brands (maybe apply to selected boards with the 43, 45, 65 and 80 suffix.) You'd have to lose the blue accents as well, black and/or dark grey with no colour accents anywhere else on the board would be ideal: why don't you just let people add their own accents? via RAM, graphics card, fans and heatsinks (now that various coloured heatsinks are getting popular.)

For gamers on a budget and looks, well I think Asrock are so superior in this regard it's faintly ridiculous. They have some great looking boards at much lower price points vs MSI, Asus and Gigabyte. The downside with Asrock appear mostly to be the thinness of the PCB and maybe suspect reliability, so if MSI made an effort I think the appeal to gamers would be much broader, without having to resort to themed boards.

FYI I like stock Intel for any systems, inc. gaming PCs that won't be used for OCing. As Asus and Gigabyte almost always force non stock things to cheat at benchmarks I tend to look elsewhere. Doesn't leave a whole lot of choice when the look of the board is also important.
post #253 of 278
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post #254 of 278
A lot of comments so I'll try to reply to them all...
Quote:
Originally Posted by zalbard View Post

It has been proven many times that so called "gaming" ports and NICs are no better than standard quality components made by, for example, Intel. So while not everyone knows that (and I see that you are targeting those specific people), it is no surprise to find yourself being criticized on tech forums for including something which is essentially an expensive gimmick for e-peen.

"Expensive gimmick" may be a correct term, but what if there was no cost premium? I can't speak for other regions, but in North America the price "premium" will be non-existent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayleyne View Post

Actually, The "average" gamer imo outside of OCN knows jack didly squat about overclocking, I'd prefer to have a gaming board to be very robust in itself, Aiming for durability and features rather then "how far can i push mah cpuz lulz" to this day my backup rig consists of an old AM2+ HP/compaq board with an athlon X2 in it, Simply because the board refuses to die, where as newer parts seem to die out the ass whenever they feel like it.


Robustness/durability>overclocking, Especially in a demanding area such as games.

This is pretty much accurate... I can pool all the data from various Fry's in-store events, from end user events as Intel LANfest, PDXLAN, PAX (both Prime and East), and a bunch of other shows and the picture starts becoming clear: there are a lot of PC gamers that (are stuck on the mentality of) think(ing) that PC gaming is difficult to master from a hardware perspective, when in reality it's quite simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterclock View Post

Well, the average PC gamer likely won't go out of their way to get a gaming specific board to begin with, imo. I'd speculate that the type of gamer who runs multi-gpu setups and concerns themselves with LAN features also tends to OC. The board appears ready to OC just fine, anyway. Looks like a nicely done mobo, either way.

Yes and no. There's so many ways to dissect this message but think about it from this perspective:

If your PC is mostly singular use (i.e. you game, or you overclock, or you do some other type of task, but not all at the same time), you will NEVER find a need for Killer LAN and its features. That, as a starting point, will determine if you find value in the Killer NIC (and subsequently, if this board makes sense to you or not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugiik View Post

If it's come to "gamer" (pc gamer) thing , i don't understand why company start selling gimmick, use "awesome words for things in it"
what we need is reability and durability at first.,compability, and upgrade-friendly,

"Ask yourself. Will the average PC gamer want to overclock?"
*who don't want to ? if they know "how to" and if they get benefit from it to play their games ?

most company don't reinvent the wheel, but they reinvent the words and how to sell us thing at more price with gimmickly feature

Why wouldn't you up the boost on your factory turbo car when there's a benefit? It's easy to think this way, and discount the fact that overclocking is not super-friendly and easy.

We already offer the basic OC Genie, something I call "training wheels for overclocking." It's a start but by no means is it the best overclock you can get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Not having a sound card != Playing a game deaf. Integrated Audio these days are in fact quite good and the ROG Formula boards(Extreme tends to be more LN2 focused and just have the best Realtek audio chip)'s integrated audio are also better than the typical Realtek solution.

This GD65 gamer board is interesting, but as long as it still lags behind other MB in term of digital VRM & Offset OC settings I'll have trouble choosing one of these over an ASUS/Gigabyte product in the same price range.

Again, this is not a brand new board. We can spend our engineering resources into a Z77 board, or do more for an upcoming chipset... you can figure out which one is a no-brainer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Well, I know that metro 2033 doesn't run properly if I don't have my CPU overclocked.

On the left is with my CPU at 4.5GHz and on the right is my CPU at stock. The stock run had a lot more stuttering.


There are probably more games like this, this one is just the first that springs to mind.

YMMV depending on the game. Some people don't care for this, some people do...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post

Absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thestache View Post

So in other words you released a motherboard for the 14yr olds that call themselves 'gamers', typically know nothing about hardware or computers and wear razed beanies while they play battlefield.

The theme of the motherboard in that case makes perfect sense.

If you feel this is a board for a 14-year old, then this board is not for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by General121 View Post

if these kids know nothing about hardware, what are they doing buying a motherboard and not a prebuilt from ibuypower or alienware.
I started ocing at 15, build first PC at 16. But my friend has been building PCs since he was 8 though I somehow still know more than him.

Why are we all equating the target audience to under-20 teenagers? I know plenty of adult-aged PC gamers (30+) that don't know much about PC hardware, and some of these guys have high-level engineering jobs.

Pre-built is nice, but there's a reason why Newegg is the #1 site for PC hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonnis View Post

The average gamer won't want to overclock, hell the average gamer doesn't know what overclocking is, all he "knows" is that he might damage components with it. However, that's because the average gamer doesn't know anything about hardware. The average gamer isn't going to buy this or any other motherboard because the average gamer doesn't build a pc, he buys a pre-built. You'd be amazed at how many pc gamers I know that don't even know what CPU or graphics card they have.

See above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seville Orange View Post


What I don't understand with MSI specifically is why the company doesn't pay more attention to the look of the 'standard' boards. The black and blue scheme is awful, these colours don't complement each other at all, the black and blue on dark brown PCB is just wretched.

Judging by your spelling you're based out of a country that is a part of the Commonwealth... so the question should be asked this way:

- What sells in my country?
- What sells in other English-speaking countries?
- What sells in Eastern Europe vs Western Europe?
- What sells in Asia?
- What sells in Japan?
- What sells in China?
- What sells in Latin America?

A lot of these impact the look and cost of boards.

Oh, and in case you did not know: matte black PCBs cost more than a "dark brown" PCB.

Anyone with a background in accounting and/or budgeting will realize that there's a reason why certain boards are the way they are.
    
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post #255 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSIalex View Post


zip

.

i agree with most of your points, just want to ask:
by how much is a matte b lack pcb is more expensive than a dark brown one?

also, what would it cost manufacturing wise to make a motherboard with a White PCB? (compared to dark brown or the notorious blue)
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post #256 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKTGX95 View Post

i agree with most of your points, just want to ask:
by how much is a matte b lack pcb is more expensive than a dark brown one?

also, what would it cost manufacturing wise to make a motherboard with a White PCB? (compared to dark brown or the notorious blue)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printed_circuit_board for a brief overview...

As for cost, don't think of cost on an individual board basis. All cost decisions when it comes to mass production is based on projected run of product, and overall cost associated with that. It maybe $0.015 per board*, but if you're making tens of thousands of that product, this ultimately factors into the profitability/margin calculations.


*it will never be this cheap for matte black PCB, just for reference.
Edited by MSIalex - 3/11/13 at 11:06am
    
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post #257 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSIalex View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printed_circuit_board for a brief overview...

As for cost, don't think of cost on an individual board basis. All cost decisions when it comes to mass production is based on projected run of product, and overall cost associated with that. It maybe $0.015 per board*, but if you're making tens of thousands of that product, this ultimately factors into the profitability/margin calculations.


*it will never be this cheap for matte black PCB, just for reference.

ok, so when talking about the cost of mass producing motherboards (for example in MSI), how much would it cost per board to make the PCB (or PWB?) color matte black or white? (i guess millions are being produced right?)
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post #258 of 278
I don't have specific cost info, sorry.
    
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post #259 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Better VRMs are not really big on Z77...The CPUs sip power, unless you're talking extreme OCing.

As for X79, get a UP4H, Xonar DX and cheap Intel PCIe ethernet card if you're that concerned about those, better than anything you'll get on a motherboard.

thats where you're wrong
3d transistors eats up insane amount of power as you overvolt... the relationship between voltage and power use is literally logarithmic if youve seen some of the charts
 
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post #260 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSIalex View Post

Judging by your spelling...
Anyone with a background in accounting and/or budgeting will realize...

Thanks for pointing this out, not for the first time in this thread your responses and choice of words are dubious.

I have more than enough in my work and education background to understand regional markets and costing manufacture, and I suggested "selected boards," not all low cost models. I strongly suspect that some carefully chosen improvements, even for a small cost would appeal more broadly than themed boards. I've no doubt that G-series will have its' appeal, but it was you who mentioned gamers that don't overclock and buying on a more limited budget.

As for lower cost boards not having such finishes, my comments still stand: this is something that MSI could dramatically improve Aside from the Asrock example iirc Asus have had some very fine looking budget boards by using a two tone blue scheme that actually complements a brown PCB. Gigabyte also produce 'lesser' boards with deep colour finishes on the PCB, so don't tell me ugly boards are justified because of cost.
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