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post #761 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

...The only problem right now is that people will be willingly buying this card for $1000. It's not worth $1000... not even close. $800? Possibly. Not $1000 though.

Agreed. To me its worth $999 but not $1000. Good thing it's $999. I can't wait for mine tongue.gif
post #762 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

I'm not sure I understand this logic, no offense. Your saying Titan would be more justified at $1000 if it performed worse...?

I'm so confused.

Our main issue is the precedent it sets. No one cared about the 8800 Ultra because it wasn't really much better than the GTX. The Titan could be a legitimate 680 successor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Then why wasn't a precedent set when AMD priced the 7970 at $550? The GTX 680 came out faster, so by your logic Nvidia should have charged $600 for it. But they didn't, not because the performance wasn't there, but because the supply/demand curve was at a lower price point. Do you think Nvidia or AMD would be able to sell hundreds of thousands of 780/8970 at $1000? The Titan is a small volume part, which means it can command a higher price because they aren't trying to sell so any of them.

AMD undercut NVIDIA by charging $300 for the 4870 and $380 for the 5870; by your logic, then, the $550 7970 shouldn't have happened. But it did. You can't count on companies deciding to be so generous. An $800 8970 that matched the Titan would still be a good value in comparison, all AMD would have to do is call it a "luxury product".
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post #763 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Do you not understand economics at all? Nvidia can't charge what people can't pay. You think they are going to survive by selling 10k graphics cards a year? rolleyes.gif

Nope, but they can survive by stagnating growth at a given price point.
Edited by Usario - 2/19/13 at 10:47pm
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post #764 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Our main issue is the precedent it sets. No one cared about the 8800 Ultra because it wasn't really much better than the GTX. The Titan could be a legitimate 680 successor.
AMD undercut NVIDIA by charging $300 for the 4870 and $380 for the 5870; by your logic, then, the $550 7970 shouldn't have happened. But it did. You can't count on companies deciding to be so generous. An $800 8970 that matched the Titan would still be a good value in comparison, all AMD would have to do is call it a "luxury product".

Can AMD afford to sell only 10k 8970's? No. They can't make a volume seller into a luxury item. Titan is outside of the consumer range so they can market it as a luxury item. Why don't you understand this?
post #765 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Do you not understand economics at all? Nvidia can't charge what people can't pay. You think they are going to survive by selling 10k graphics cards a year? rolleyes.gif
Bingo! You get an internet cookie!

I think most people are concerned with performance not matching the card's price point and having this trend continue in to the future. Yes, Nvidia will continue to sell 500-600 dollar cards but will the performance justify its cost?
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post #766 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Then why wasn't a precedent set when AMD priced the 7970 at $550? The GTX 680 came out faster, so by your logic Nvidia should have charged $600 for it. But they didn't, not because the performance wasn't there, but because the supply/demand curve was at a lower price point. Do you think Nvidia or AMD would be able to sell hundreds of thousands of 780/8970 at $1000? The Titan is a small volume part, which means it can command a higher price because they aren't trying to sell so any of them.

One small-volume card doesn't make a trend. If you want to sell a high volume of parts, you have to charge high-volume prices.

The 680 had an Achilles heel; its compute performance sucked, especially compared to the previous generation of video cards. The 7970 was the complete package: Compute and gaming performance (at the time of release). The GTX 580 was a compute monster.

Also, At this moment in time, there are many more nvidia users out there than AMD users. That puts nvidia in the envious position of being the trend setter; if Nvidia can get away with selling a single GPU consumer card at $1000, who is to say that all big-die GPU's from this point forward won't be $1000? It's all about perspective.

GK104 was a runaway success at $500 or below. Who's to say that the next generation won't be exactly the same?
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post #767 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Do you not understand economics at all? Nvidia can't charge what people can't pay. You think they are going to survive by selling 10k graphics cards a year? rolleyes.gif
Bingo! You get an internet cookie!

Yeah, it's basic economics. They charge what they think people are willing to pay. If people were willing to pay $5000 for it they'd charge that much.

But I don't blame them, I blame enthusiasts. I blame you guys and I even blame myself for participating in this frenzy.

We're LETTING THEM get away with it. WE are the market and we're telling them that it's ok for them to charge a thousand. If we didn't put up with this they wouldn't charge this ridiculous amount.
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post #768 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Can AMD afford to sell only 10k 8970's? No. They can't make a volume seller into a luxury item. Titan is outside of the consumer range so they can market it as a luxury item. Why don't you understand this?

I'm sorry. Let's call Venus XTX the Radeon HD... uhh... Radeon HD XTX. Venus is already rumored to be the biggest die AMD's ever produced... hey! What if they make Pitcairn's successor larger than its predecessor as well, maybe ~350mm^2 (OH WAIT! Rumors already say that's happening!), and completely dedicate it to gaming so it gets 20% more fps than the HD 7970? Then they can market that as 8970 for $500 and sell their "luxury" XTX for $800.

And then you have the equivalent of NVIDIA.

The precedent is set.
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post #769 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

The 680 had an Achilles heel; its compute performance sucked, especially compared to the previous generation of video cards. The 7970 was the complete package: Compute and gaming performance (at the time of release). The GTX 580 was a compute monster.

Also, At this moment in time, there are many more nvidia users out there than AMD users. That puts nvidia in the envious position of being the trend setter; if Nvidia can get away with selling a single GPU consumer card at $1000, who is to say that all big-die GPU's from this point forward won't be $1000? It's all about perspective.

GK104 was a runaway success at $500 or below. Who's to say that the next generation won't be exactly the same?

If they want all big-die GPU's from now on to be limited editions then sure, they can keep charging that. The volume sellers (i.e. the products they actually make money on) will always have their prices dictated by the market. People don't pay $1k for mainstream cards.
post #770 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Our main issue is the precedent it sets. No one cared about the 8800 Ultra because it wasn't really much better than the GTX. The Titan could be a legitimate 680 successor.

I get where you are coming from. It would of been nice if they released a titan with less VRAM for $750-800. 6GB of total overkill and just jacks up the price, that's mainly why they cost so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

Yeah, it's basic economics. They charge what they think people are willing to pay. If people were willing to pay $5000 for it they'd charge that much.

But I don't blame them, I blame enthusiasts. I blame you guys and I even blame myself for participating in this frenzy.

We're LETTING THEM get away with it. WE are the market and we're telling them that it's ok for them to charge a thousand. If we didn't put up with this they wouldn't charge this ridiculous amount.

It's an enthusiast card though, it should have no effect on mainstream high end GPUs like the 580/680/780. There's no way NVIDIA could profit off these at $500 with 6GB of VRAM and the given specs. The 780 will most likely be the same performance jump as a 580 to 680, and be around the same price point.

They could of released the 780 first, then released the Titan later.. but then you'd have people complaining that already bought the 780s. I don't think you can ever make everyone happy.
Edited by Murlocke - 2/19/13 at 10:57pm
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2x 1TB Samsung 960 PRO 193TB unRAID Server 3x 140mm Noctua NF-A14 Noctua NH-D15 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro x64 65" LG 65E6P (4K OLED) Ducky DK9008 Shine 3  Corsair AX860 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Corsair Obsidian 750D Logitech G502 Proteus Sprectrum Denon X7200WA (Receiver) 2x Klipsch RF-7 (Front Speakers) 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
4x Klipsch RS-62 (Surround Speakers) Klipsch RC-64 (Center Speaker) 4x Klipsch CDT-5800-C II (Atmos Speakers) 2x SVS PB16-Ultra (Subwoofers) 
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The Leviathan
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k @ 4.7GHz MSI Z170A Gaming M7 12GB NVIDIA Titan X (Pascal) 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws V (DDR4 3200) 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
2x 1TB Samsung 960 PRO 193TB unRAID Server 3x 140mm Noctua NF-A14 Noctua NH-D15 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro x64 65" LG 65E6P (4K OLED) Ducky DK9008 Shine 3  Corsair AX860 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Corsair Obsidian 750D Logitech G502 Proteus Sprectrum Denon X7200WA (Receiver) 2x Klipsch RF-7 (Front Speakers) 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
4x Klipsch RS-62 (Surround Speakers) Klipsch RC-64 (Center Speaker) 4x Klipsch CDT-5800-C II (Atmos Speakers) 2x SVS PB16-Ultra (Subwoofers) 
  hide details  
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Various] GTX TITAN Previews