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[Various] GTX TITAN Previews - Page 81  

post #801 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Because enough people will pay for it to justify the price? What do you want me to say, "Nvidia should just make Titan $200 so everybody can join the fun!" Doesn't work that way...

You're again referring to the market. Forget about the market and tell me why something should just double in price. You don't see car manufacturers charging double or triple the price for significantly better cars than previous generations, do you? No. Car prices generally stay the same given significant LEAPS in performance, efficiency, safety, and technology. A 2013 Civic doesn't cost 20 times as much as a 1993 Civic, and there's a reason for it.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

If the hardware and performance justifies the price, then it's reasonable to be a $1000 card.

It's not simply about "better performance". Prices can't go out of control like that, they have to stay in same ballpark even with improved performance.


Should 2 TB hard drives cost $700 million now? rolleyes.gif

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post #802 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

But when this boutique card would have been the mainstream card if we were living 5 years ago and you decide to relegate the mainstream market to 25-50% performance increases per cycle, cycles that have been significantly increased in time, it becomes apparent that progress in the mainstream market has been stagnated.

Nvidia obviously wasn't satisfied with selling GF110 at $500, thus the move to Titan. Does Nvidia just have to live under the paradigm they set with Fermi forever or are they allowed to change that paradigm as they see fit considering it is their product?
post #803 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafboy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

This sort reminds me of the whole tethering fee that they taced onto Apple Users. Who knew they would so readily pay for what was once free and not its starting to become standard. It could be a dangerous slope...?

If it was for their mainstream product I would agree. It could be dangerous. But that's just not the case.

700 series cards will remain at a similar price point at the current gen 600 cards, as was the price point for the 500 cards and so forth.

They are simply introducing a special card because they can and because people want it. It's an expensive product to make and they know they can't sell many of them at x, y, and z cost. So they guess how many they will sell and price it accordingly.

If they made GK110 their new mainstream flagship GTX card then they'd be shooting themself in the foot for the 700 series mainstream cards.


Isn't it a throwaway actually? These are the lesser binned K20s that have no space, no market. Thus they are carving a market for it. If ppl start forking over the cash for this... who knows what they could dream up next? I sure don't.
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post #804 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Not on the same level??? rolleyes.gif

Die size: GTX 580 - 520mm
Die size: Titan - 551mm

Both use 384-bit memory bus

Both have a 250(ish)-watt TDP

Both cards are 10.5 inches long

Both cards use 6+8 pin power connectors

GTX 580 - GF110
Titan - GK110


I think the GTX 580 does compare to the Titan just fine. tongue.gif

Alright, so say you can compare the two...

how do you think that should effect the 700 series cards prices? That will not only have less VRAM, cheaper materials but perform worse?

580 was a mainstream card. Titan just isn't.
 
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post #805 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafboy View Post

If they made GK110 their new mainstream flagship GTX card then they'd be shooting themself in the foot for the 700 series mainstream cards.

No, they're shooting themselves in the foot by releasing GK110 before the other 700 series cards. They've already set a precedent by releasing GK104 at a $500 price point. Now, they come out with their big-die GPU and charge $1000 for it. Last generation, an equivalent performing card was $500.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafboy View Post

Alright, so say you can compare the two...

how do you think that should effect the 700 series cards prices? That will not only have less VRAM, cheaper materials but perform worse?

580 was a mainstream card. Titan just isn't.

How so? Because nvidia slapped a metal cooler on it and jacked up the price to a grand?

Seriously, The Titan IS big Kepler. There is no reason to price this card at $1000; it's not $1000 worth of performance. Maybe $800, but not $1000. $1000 is reserved for the GTX 690, which performs better than Titan.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 2/19/13 at 11:27pm
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post #806 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

Isn't it a throwaway actually? These are the lesser binned K20s that have no space sale space. Thus they are carving a market for it. If ppl start forking over the cash for this... who knows what they could dream up next? I sure don't.

Sure, but they are lesser binned from extremely expensive cards. If they have a special market, good for them, but why should that eat into their planned mainstream cards? Should they throw away years of R&D and planning just so we can't have a niche product? They could have easily just not released Titan and let it be. They had the cores, and had the demand, so why not sell it? Doesn't change anything else.
 
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post #807 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Nvidia was still making money on the GTX 580 @ $500. Keep that in perspective. thumb.gif

yeah. even the GTX 580 3GB was USD 600. assuming another USD 100 for the jump from 3GB to 6GB the Titan could have been sold at USD 700. But that would have only happened if there was a HD 8970 at USD 500.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

You might be ok with spending a grand on a graphics card, but once you look at THE MARKET, you realize how absurd that price really is for what you're getting. If the GTX 690 didn't exist, I might be singing a different tune right now, but it does exist. There is no way that nvidia is losing money on the Titan. Nvidia is making a killing on each card sold. Guaranteed.

absolutely. Nvidia's gross margins in 2013 could be the highest ever in the company history. the GTX 690 pushed the dual GPU price up from USD 699 (GTX 590) to USD 999. With the GTX 590 Nvidia sold two 530 sq mm dies with 3GB of VRAM for USD 700. With GTX 690 they sold two 294 sq mm dies with 4 GB VRAM for USD 1000. This is probably the worst generation in terms of pricing of ultra enthusiast products.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4239/nvidias-geforce-gtx-590-duking-it-out-for-the-single-card-king

But this trend of pricing increase at the high end is not sustainable. so we will see what happens.
Edited by raghu78 - 2/19/13 at 11:31pm
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post #808 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

No, they're shooting themselves in the foot by releasing GK110 before the other 700 series cards. They've already set a precedent by releasing GK104 at a $500 price point. Now, they come out with their big-die GPU and charge $1000 for it. Last generation, an equivalent performing card was $500.

Yes, and the 700 series cards will also be at the 500 price point but will perform worse than Titan. And your point is?
 
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post #809 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

No it wasn't. It means that you were able to convince people of questionable intelligence that it was worth $1k. Apple sells iPhones for $800.

I thought you were being really reasonable until this comment. Maybe i'm misunderstanding you, it's 1AM here and i'm tired. biggrin.gif

So if I make $3,000/week, and I want to buy a $1000 GPU that makes me stupid? Dollars amounts are 100% dependant on a person's income and a person's income is usually a reflection of their intelligence. Celebrity blow tens of thousands on clothes every month just because they can.

$1000 may seem like a lot to you, but too some people it's nothing to lose sleep over. This card is really not designed for someone with the normal income, and even if you have a normal income you could totally save for the card if you wanted it. I personally don't feel $500,000 cars are worth it, but if I was making a million dollars a year, i'd probably change my opinion.

People of questionable intelligence could be the smartest people in the world. Questionable. Indefinite. Uncertain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Nvidia obviously wasn't satisfied with selling GF110 at $500, thus the move to Titan. Does Nvidia just have to live under the paradigm they set with Fermi forever or are they allowed to change that paradigm as they see fit considering it is their product?

That paradigm wasn't set with Fermi. Their monolithic GPUs never sold for more than $650, with the exception of the 8800 Ultra which was really just a better overclocking GTX.
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post #810 of 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

You're again referring to the market. Forget about the market and tell me why something should just double in price. You don't see car manufacturers charging double or triple the price for significantly better cars than previous generations, do you? No. Car prices generally stay the same given significant LEAPS in performance, efficiency, safety, and technology. A 2013 Civic doesn't cost 20 times as much as a 1993 Civic, and there's a reason for it.
It's not simply about "better performance". Prices can't go out of control like that, they have to stay in same ballpark even with improved performance.


Should 2 TB hard drives cost $700 million now? rolleyes.gif


What you think companies should or shouldn't charge is irrelevant. If Nvidia had to sell Titan in volume it wouldn't be priced at $1k. It wouldn't have 6GB of VRAM. It wouldn't have a fancy aluminum housing or a vapor chamber with a see-through window. It would be the GTX 680. The Titan is not a Civic. The 660Ti is and it will remain priced at mainstream prices. Titan is like a Lexus LS compared to the 660Ti's Toyota Corolla. That's just the way the free market works.
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