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[Ars] We broke the tomato, and we’re using science to fix it - Page 4

post #31 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

Tomato seeds cost anywhere from FREE to $3.00. They are fairly easy to keep during the growing season and produce non-stop. They also taste x1000 better than the mass produced Mexico shipped product that fills most stores all year round.

The store tomato is often more expensive than growing one yourself.
If you hate gardening you can get something like a Topsy Turvy and grow your own tomatoes All Year Long in your kitchen.
https://www.topsyturvy.com/?MID=815388&gclid=CObV9YL7wrUCFcme4AodtyYA7Q

More like consumers being lazy accepting bland food in our stores, and just now realizing that cheaper produce tastes better.

I use that argument about Linux and people think I'm a nut job. Love how perception creates "reality" in this world. There's merit to what you say but we're both enthusiasts and by that our choices are outliers. How much do you spend in feed, fertilizer, time, and so on. Cost is not just about the dollar value of something but also the time and resources invested in it's creation/acquisition. I don't doubt it takes less time and maybe less money than people think...but they knowingly or not decide that the cost in time or whatever is more expensive to them.

So...which costs more? Depends on what the person asked values. BUT...in general terms...the average person over time dictated that it was mass produced tomatos that they wanted and that's what we have. If they're upset with that then they should make that clear in what they buy or don't buy. Choice is only good if people actually make it.
     
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post #32 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbozo View Post

I can guarantee the difference is not psychosomatic. I would be willing to bet, given a blind taste test you will notice the difference quite easily. Many have (that is how we have converted many people). Eggland is by far the closest, but there is a difference in taste (plus the absence of antibiotics). Visually there is a significant difference as well. The shells are different but the main difference is the deep color of the yolk.

Plus there is nothing like getting your eggs delivered to your door.

I have tasted hundreds of eggs in blind taste tests, and I have administered these same tests to taste groups. (I was a poultry nutritionist.) Changing the color of animal byproducts (eggs, milk, etc) is not a terribly complex ordeal. Marigolds or corn are excellent methods to achieve a "deep yellowing" of the yolk in eggs, and it would not surprise me to find that their proprietary layer diet is loaded with either of those ingredients. These additives also produce no perceptible difference in flavor. The composition of eggs is well known and identical between laying breeds. The shells are also not chemically different. I'm not sure who told you that. Antibiotics are are not used directly in eggs, and any hen given therapeutic levels of antibiotics has her eggs removed from the food supply by law.

Having fresh eggs delivered to your door would certainly be swell, and by all means eat whatever eggs you feel so inclined to. However, there is no real science to support the notion that there is a widely perceptible difference in flavor among egg laying breeds even when taking into consideration diet and environment.
Edited by Solarin - 2/19/13 at 1:16pm
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post #33 of 111
i say toe-may-toe... you say... egg

biggrin.gif
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post #34 of 111
It doesn't mention it in the article, but the trait that caused the sublime flavour of tomatoes is also responsible for making the top of the tomato green and appear unripe. In this instance it was actually unknowing consumers that forced out this trait, because who would want to buy an unripe tomato when the entire thing can be red?


Example of what I'm talking about:
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post #35 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bartender Paradox View Post

It doesn't mention it in the article, but the trait that caused the sublime flavour of tomatoes is also responsible for making the top of the tomato green and appear unripe. In this instance it was actually unknowing consumers that forced out this trait, because who would want to buy an unripe tomato when the entire thing can be red?


Example of what I'm talking about:

I most certainly hope it's not a more even color that was a driving force in breeding. After all people are more then happy to eat unevenly colored apples for example. If I had to wager a guess its probably the traits for ruggedness and growth time/corp yield that ruined the taste.

And lets not forget that even regular breeds of tomato taste better if grown properly at home and eaten fresh. Mass production tomatoes are grown as fast as possible not as "tasty" as possible.
    
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post #36 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solarin View Post

It isn't a matter of "putting the good taste genes back in." Within the field of genetics there are linked traits that can exhibit either negative or positive correlation with each other. For example, carcass traits for livestock (weaning weight, feed:gain, and musculature) are negatively correlated with reproductive traits (parity, birthing ease, lactation.) It is not genetically feasible to create genetic improvement in both of these categories. One benefits at the expense of the other. As of yet, I am not aware of any success with "un-linking" traits. The relative balance between these traits is one of the driving forces behind the plethora of breeds we employ in agriculture.

It would not shock me to find out that flavor and heartiness are negatively correlated traits for tomatoes. (Take heirloom varieties that die if you look at them cross-eyed as an example.)

That is what I am guessing as well...by improving one thing they hurt another and it is doubtful they can have both. It might not even be something genetic tailoring can fix. By making tougher tomatoes that ship better they probably made tomatoes with more cellulose in them and less "juicy" stuff inside the cell where the taste comes from. The only way to get the taste back is decrease amount of cellulose relative to the rest of the tomato...which then makes it weaker structurally and harder to ship.
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post #37 of 111
No to GMO's!
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post #38 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatakai All View Post

No to GMO's!

Better give up corn (maize) as it was a GMO from the native american days. rolleyes.gif
     
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post #39 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

This is so true.

My garden tomatoes are super juicy with a rich red color. They taste AMAZING.
Store bought tomatoes just taste like... I mean you can tell they are tomatoes but then they aren't.

^This

Organic tomatoes are so damn delicious.
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post #40 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solarin View Post

I have tasted hundreds of eggs in blind taste tests, and I have administered these same tests to taste groups. (I was a poultry nutritionist.) Changing the color of animal byproducts (eggs, milk, etc) is not a terribly complex ordeal. Marigolds or corn are excellent methods to achieve a "deep yellowing" of the yolk in eggs, and it would not surprise me to find that their proprietary layer diet is loaded with either of those ingredients. These additives also produce no perceptible difference in flavor. The composition of eggs is well known and identical between laying breeds. The shells are also not chemically different. I'm not sure who told you that. Antibiotics are are not used directly in eggs, and any hen given therapeutic levels of antibiotics has her eggs removed from the food supply by law.

Having fresh eggs delivered to your door would certainly be swell, and by all means eat whatever eggs you feel so inclined to. However, there is no real science to support the notion that there is a widely perceptible difference in flavor among egg laying breeds even when taking into consideration diet and environment.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on the taste. To me and many of my neighbors and friends, eggs from the store, just like a lot of the produce (including tomatoes), taste more bland than that acquired at a farmers market or from the back yard.

I'm not talking about the shells being chemically different, just different in appearance and toughness. An article my cousin sent me years ago indicated that egg producers (used to or still do) enrich the diet of their chickens to create a tougher shell that survives shipping better. No chemicals, just enhanced minerals (it's been a while). There was a switch to a specific breed many many decades ago to produce the white shells, consumers loved more than the colored ones. My cousin now runs her family farm and ranch (south eastern Colorado) and over the last few decades they have been slowly replacing single breeds with multiple breed and have done away with a lot of the "additives" commonly used in the production of eggs, dairy and other food stuffs. They are not totally organic yet, but set that as a bar (very hard to do with certain food stuffs and still turn a profit).

There is a local farmer that specializes in heirloom tomatoes (http://www.growbetterveggies.com/growbetterveggies/) and we try to use their seeds since they grow well in our unique area.
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