Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [Ars] We broke the tomato, and we’re using science to fix it
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Ars] We broke the tomato, and we’re using science to fix it - Page 5

post #41 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbozo View Post

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on the taste. To me and many of my neighbors and friends, eggs from the store, just like a lot of the produce (including tomatoes), taste more bland than that acquired at a farmers market or from the back yard.

I'm not talking about the shells being chemically different, just different in appearance and toughness. An article my cousin sent me years ago indicated that egg producers (used to or still do) enrich the diet of their chickens to create a tougher shell that survives shipping better. No chemicals, just enhanced minerals (it's been a while). There was a switch to a specific breed many many decades ago to produce the white shells, consumers loved more than the colored ones. My cousin now runs her family farm and ranch (south eastern Colorado) and over the last few decades they have been slowly replacing single breeds with multiple breed and have done away with a lot of the "additives" commonly used in the production of eggs, dairy and other food stuffs. They are not totally organic yet, but set that as a bar (very hard to do with certain food stuffs and still turn a profit).

There is a local farmer that specializes in heirloom tomatoes (http://www.growbetterveggies.com/growbetterveggies/) and we try to use their seeds since they grow well in our unique area.

Difference in shell thickness doesn't impact flavor, just an indicator that your chickens don't or do have enough calcium in their diets.
Dynamix
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-860 Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4P Radeon 7970 Corsair Domintor Twins + Other = 16 Gb 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WD Caviar Black, 500gb OCZ Solid 3 Sony Optiarc Corsair H50 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate Samsung P2570HD + Other Logitech G110 Corsair 750W HX 
CaseMouse
Antec p183 Logitech MX Revolution 
  hide details  
Reply
Dynamix
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-860 Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4P Radeon 7970 Corsair Domintor Twins + Other = 16 Gb 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WD Caviar Black, 500gb OCZ Solid 3 Sony Optiarc Corsair H50 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate Samsung P2570HD + Other Logitech G110 Corsair 750W HX 
CaseMouse
Antec p183 Logitech MX Revolution 
  hide details  
Reply
post #42 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbozo View Post

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on the taste. To me and many of my neighbors and friends, eggs from the store, just like a lot of the produce (including tomatoes), taste more bland than that acquired at a farmers market or from the back yard.

I'm not talking about the shells being chemically different, just different in appearance and toughness. An article my cousin sent me years ago indicated that egg producers (used to or still do) enrich the diet of their chickens to create a tougher shell that survives shipping better. No chemicals, just enhanced minerals (it's been a while). There was a switch to a specific breed many many decades ago to produce the white shells, consumers loved more than the colored ones. My cousin now runs her family farm and ranch (south eastern Colorado) and over the last few decades they have been slowly replacing single breeds with multiple breed and have done away with a lot of the "additives" commonly used in the production of eggs, dairy and other food stuffs. They are not totally organic yet, but set that as a bar (very hard to do with certain food stuffs and still turn a profit).

There is a local farmer that specializes in heirloom tomatoes (http://www.growbetterveggies.com/growbetterveggies/) and we try to use their seeds since they grow well in our unique area.

I remember reading something about that too. If I remember right they added calcium powder.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
post #43 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbozo View Post

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on the taste. To me and many of my neighbors and friends, eggs from the store, just like a lot of the produce (including tomatoes), taste more bland than that acquired at a farmers market or from the back yard.

I'm not talking about the shells being chemically different, just different in appearance and toughness. An article my cousin sent me years ago indicated that egg producers (used to or still do) enrich the diet of their chickens to create a tougher shell that survives shipping better. No chemicals, just enhanced minerals (it's been a while). There was a switch to a specific breed many many decades ago to produce the white shells, consumers loved more than the colored ones. My cousin now runs her family farm and ranch (south eastern Colorado) and over the last few decades they have been slowly replacing single breeds with multiple breed and have done away with a lot of the "additives" commonly used in the production of eggs, dairy and other food stuffs. They are not totally organic yet, but set that as a bar (very hard to do with certain food stuffs and still turn a profit).

There is a local farmer that specializes in heirloom tomatoes (http://www.growbetterveggies.com/growbetterveggies/) and we try to use their seeds since they grow well in our unique area.

Ummm...confirmation and other biases are apparent in that statement. Did you do double blind tests (in other words made sure that no one could know which was the market and which one was the store?)? Probably not.

The second part in bold is another point. Why/when did the organic craze start? When fertility rates had plummeted for a sufficient duration and level thus there was/would be less need for such high production levels of food and also to create a "luxury"/differentiated product that one could then potentially sell for a higher price (attempting to avoid the current state of "commodity hell" that is the norm for the produce market/industry).

Please don't take this as condescending but anyone thinking that the "organic fanatics" are in for ONLY your best interest are wrong. They are simply trying to make a market for themselves to compete because they see an opportunity (financial or otherwise). Personally, I see no reason they shouldn't try to compete. But the fear mongering over their competitors needs to be tempered. Be suspicious of any one who you have to pay something for/to.
     
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core m3-6Y30 Intel HD515 8GB 1866DDR3L Micron M600 MTFDDAV256MBF M.2, 256 GB 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Fanless Win10 Home x64 Kubuntu 16.04 (requires Linux kernel 4.5/4.6) 13.3 inch 16:9, 1920x1080 pixel, AU Optronics A... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AthlonIIX4 640 3.62GHz (250x14.5) 2.5GHz NB Asus M4A785TD-M EVO MSI GTX275 (Stock 666) 8GBs of GSkill 1600 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
4GBs of Adata 1333 Kingston HyperX 3k 120GB WD Caviar Black 500GB Hitachi Deskstar 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
LG 8X BDR (WHL08S20) Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Kubuntu x64 Windows 7 x64 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Bodhi Linux x64 Acer G215H (1920x1080) Seasonic 520 HAF912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
N450 1.8GHz AC and 1.66GHz batt ASUS proprietary for 1001P GMA3150 (can play bluray now!?) 1GB DDR2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSOS
160GB LGLHDLBDRE32X Bodhi Linux Fedora LXDE 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
Kubuntu SLAX 1280x600 + Dell 15inch Excellent! 
PowerCase
6 cells=6-12hrs and a charger 1001P MU17 Black 
  hide details  
Reply
     
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core m3-6Y30 Intel HD515 8GB 1866DDR3L Micron M600 MTFDDAV256MBF M.2, 256 GB 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Fanless Win10 Home x64 Kubuntu 16.04 (requires Linux kernel 4.5/4.6) 13.3 inch 16:9, 1920x1080 pixel, AU Optronics A... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AthlonIIX4 640 3.62GHz (250x14.5) 2.5GHz NB Asus M4A785TD-M EVO MSI GTX275 (Stock 666) 8GBs of GSkill 1600 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
4GBs of Adata 1333 Kingston HyperX 3k 120GB WD Caviar Black 500GB Hitachi Deskstar 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
LG 8X BDR (WHL08S20) Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Kubuntu x64 Windows 7 x64 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Bodhi Linux x64 Acer G215H (1920x1080) Seasonic 520 HAF912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
N450 1.8GHz AC and 1.66GHz batt ASUS proprietary for 1001P GMA3150 (can play bluray now!?) 1GB DDR2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSOS
160GB LGLHDLBDRE32X Bodhi Linux Fedora LXDE 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
Kubuntu SLAX 1280x600 + Dell 15inch Excellent! 
PowerCase
6 cells=6-12hrs and a charger 1001P MU17 Black 
  hide details  
Reply
post #44 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen00 View Post

Difference in shell thickness doesn't impact flavor, just an indicator that your chickens don't or do have enough calcium in their diets.

Agreed and I wasn't implying that.
Gaming rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C2D E8600 ASUS Striker Extreme eVga 8800 gts 640 OCZ Platinum 4gb 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD2500JS NEC DVD+-RW Windows XP SP3 2x LG L226WTX 22" widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ideazon Merc Stealth Ultra Atx 600 Cooler Master CM690 Logitech Mx 518 
  hide details  
Reply
Gaming rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C2D E8600 ASUS Striker Extreme eVga 8800 gts 640 OCZ Platinum 4gb 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD2500JS NEC DVD+-RW Windows XP SP3 2x LG L226WTX 22" widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ideazon Merc Stealth Ultra Atx 600 Cooler Master CM690 Logitech Mx 518 
  hide details  
Reply
post #45 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbozo View Post

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on the taste. To me and many of my neighbors and friends, eggs from the store, just like a lot of the produce (including tomatoes), taste more bland than that acquired at a farmers market or from the back yard.

I'm not talking about the shells being chemically different, just different in appearance and toughness. An article my cousin sent me years ago indicated that egg producers (used to or still do) enrich the diet of their chickens to create a tougher shell that survives shipping better. No chemicals, just enhanced minerals (it's been a while). There was a switch to a specific breed many many decades ago to produce the white shells, consumers loved more than the colored ones. My cousin now runs her family farm and ranch (south eastern Colorado) and over the last few decades they have been slowly replacing single breeds with multiple breed and have done away with a lot of the "additives" commonly used in the production of eggs, dairy and other food stuffs. They are not totally organic yet, but set that as a bar (very hard to do with certain food stuffs and still turn a profit).

There is a local farmer that specializes in heirloom tomatoes (http://www.growbetterveggies.com/growbetterveggies/) and we try to use their seeds since they grow well in our unique area.

I have no problem with people having an egg brand preference just like I have no problem with people swearing angus certified beef tastes better. Eat what you like.

The only real "additive" added to a layer's diet is powdered limestone (or calcium powder). Much of the art in feeding laying hens comes down to finding ways of maintaining high levels of kcals in their diet when their nutritional requirement for calcium and phosphorus is so high. Plunking some MFA layer feed for your backyard hens might get them by, but in the agriculture industry it is about maximization of production. To that end, all animals have their nutrient intake monitored closely along with their body condition. If a hen does not get the proper amount of calcium and phosphorus she can lay brittle, porous or shell less eggs (which happens more than you think in someone backyard flock). It is also the case that first or second parity layers can have some shell quality issues. However, there is not some magic powder or chemical that is put into layer diet that causes shells to magically thicken. It is just simple nutritive biochemistry.

People like to believe our food supply is just riddled with chemicals and enhancers, but this just simply not the case.
Edited by Solarin - 2/19/13 at 3:03pm
Rishloo
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k @ 4.4 GHz ASUS P8Z68-V Pro/Gen3 EVGA 9800 GTX 8GB (2x4GB) G.Skill Ripjaws X 1600 8-8-8-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
Samsung 840 EVO Crucial M4 Boot Drive WD Caviar Black Windows 8.1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 24" G2410 Logitech G19 Seasonic X-Series 750W Coolermaster HAF X 
MouseAudio
Logtiech G9x X-Fi Gamer 
  hide details  
Reply
Rishloo
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k @ 4.4 GHz ASUS P8Z68-V Pro/Gen3 EVGA 9800 GTX 8GB (2x4GB) G.Skill Ripjaws X 1600 8-8-8-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
Samsung 840 EVO Crucial M4 Boot Drive WD Caviar Black Windows 8.1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 24" G2410 Logitech G19 Seasonic X-Series 750W Coolermaster HAF X 
MouseAudio
Logtiech G9x X-Fi Gamer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #46 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatakai All View Post

No to GMO's!
Better give up corn (maize) as it was a GMO from the native american days. rolleyes.gif
Yea, but if people actually thought about what GMO means rather than pretending it's something we've only been able to do since gene manipulation has become prevalent they'd have to stop eating food altogether.
Micro Dance
(8 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4790k z97i-plus EVGA GTX980 SC 16GB Team Xtreme 2400 
Hard DriveCoolingOSCase
512GB Samsung SSD 830 NH-L12 Windows 10 EVGA Hadron Air 
  hide details  
Reply
Micro Dance
(8 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4790k z97i-plus EVGA GTX980 SC 16GB Team Xtreme 2400 
Hard DriveCoolingOSCase
512GB Samsung SSD 830 NH-L12 Windows 10 EVGA Hadron Air 
  hide details  
Reply
post #47 of 111
That's because UK supermarket tomatoes are 29% horse.
The Watt Gobbler
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD A8 5600K Asrock FM2A75 Pro 4 Powercolour HD 7850 2GB vengeance 2 x 4GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WD Caviar Blue 320 GB Samsung 840 250GB SSD Samsung Super Writemaster Zalman CNPS 5X 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Win 7 Pro 64 Mint 15 Dell VGA 1280x1024 NEC DVI 1280x1024 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Viewsonic 22" HDMI New wireless junk Silverstone Strider Essential 600W Akasa Omega 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Urage 5 button gamer Don't bother with one. Asus Xonar DGX 
  hide details  
Reply
The Watt Gobbler
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD A8 5600K Asrock FM2A75 Pro 4 Powercolour HD 7850 2GB vengeance 2 x 4GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WD Caviar Blue 320 GB Samsung 840 250GB SSD Samsung Super Writemaster Zalman CNPS 5X 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Win 7 Pro 64 Mint 15 Dell VGA 1280x1024 NEC DVI 1280x1024 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Viewsonic 22" HDMI New wireless junk Silverstone Strider Essential 600W Akasa Omega 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Urage 5 button gamer Don't bother with one. Asus Xonar DGX 
  hide details  
Reply
post #48 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeio View Post

Yea, but if people actually thought about what GMO means rather than pretending it's something we've only been able to do since gene manipulation has become prevalent they'd have to stop eating food altogether.

Yeah. The whole "Frankenfood" movement is so hilariously miss guided. "OMG you are what you eat. How can you put that suff in your body" as if the genes could jump ship and mutate you too lachen.gif
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
post #49 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Ummm...confirmation and other biases are apparent in that statement. Did you do double blind tests (in other words made sure that no one could know which was the market and which one was the store?)? Probably not.

Yes. Yes they did. They even blindfolded folks because the color of the yolks would give it away. (BTW: this was not my test, rather one run by a culinary school in the area)

The second part in bold is another point. Why/when did the organic craze start? When fertility rates had plummeted for a sufficient duration and level thus there was/would be less need for such high production levels of food and also to create a "luxury"/differentiated product that one could then potentially sell for a higher price (attempting to avoid the current state of "commodity hell" that is the norm for the produce market/industry).

Please don't take this as condescending but anyone thinking that the "organic fanatics" are in for ONLY your best interest are wrong. They are simply trying to make a market for themselves to compete because they see an opportunity (financial or otherwise). Personally, I see no reason they shouldn't try to compete. But the fear mongering over their competitors needs to be tempered. Be suspicious of any one who you have to pay something for/to.

For my cousin's family, their "green" movement started when substantial traces of chemicals used in the production of their vegetables started showing up in the ground water they drink, and use on the farm. Some of their and their neighbors livestock started having health related issues due to those chemicals. All of the farmers and ranchers in the south eastern part of Colorado have cut back on their use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers and at least some of them are pursuing a more "green" approach of using natural fertilizers and pest control. This happened a long time before it was the PC thing to do. For them it was financially motivated. They were looking at losing their entire ranch and part of their farms. Farms that have been in their family since before there was a Colorado. lol!

(and it didn't sound condescending to me)
Gaming rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C2D E8600 ASUS Striker Extreme eVga 8800 gts 640 OCZ Platinum 4gb 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD2500JS NEC DVD+-RW Windows XP SP3 2x LG L226WTX 22" widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ideazon Merc Stealth Ultra Atx 600 Cooler Master CM690 Logitech Mx 518 
  hide details  
Reply
Gaming rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C2D E8600 ASUS Striker Extreme eVga 8800 gts 640 OCZ Platinum 4gb 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD2500JS NEC DVD+-RW Windows XP SP3 2x LG L226WTX 22" widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ideazon Merc Stealth Ultra Atx 600 Cooler Master CM690 Logitech Mx 518 
  hide details  
Reply
post #50 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by b3machi7ke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfroth View Post

SCIENCE!!!

...is what screwed it up in the first place

Don't blame science for this. Blame the people who abused it.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [Ars] We broke the tomato, and we’re using science to fix it