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[Official] Nvidia GeForce GTX TITAN Owners' club - Page 2334

post #23331 of 28139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

Quad SLI is not a waste if you have a high enough resolution to avoid CPU bottlenecks. That goes for benching and gaming. BUT even at high resolutions quad can have problems also in some games due to the current SLI technology and coding of a particular game. When i had quad i found some games would just drop GPU use and framerate very noticeable and then would pick back up again. It wasnt very smooth for me in many games. But i was at 7680x1440 up to 120Hz, so butter smooth gameplay was an absolute must for me. It was just too inconsistent.

Thank you for explaining your point of view. I am definitely more a casual gamer these days myself. I thought the Titans and 700 series had way better frametimes/latency even in multi gpu configs?
post #23332 of 28139
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDNA View Post

Thank you for explaining your point of view. I am definitely more a casual gamer these days myself. I thought the Titans and 700 series had way better frametimes/latency even in multi gpu configs?

Short answer:

Oh they definitely have better latency with their larger bus and massive frame buffers. Much smoother than my previous quad GTX 670s with it's smaller bus that really hurt at surround resolutions.

Don't get me wrong some games work great in quad SLI, but like I said there was more inconsistency due to the current SLI technology. And where your specific bottleneck lays in the GPU pipeline, depending on many factors.

Im running just a single GPU at the highest overclock possible now (1300+ mhz) and getting away from my Quad SLI setups. As the more GPUs you have, generally past 2-way sli, the more issues arise and frametimes (smoothness) gets less consistent.

Long answer: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
This is how it was taught to me:

Quote:
Most scaling issues are caused by cross-frame data. For example, rendering things like HDR, shadow maps, and other secondary resources often require calculation during one frame but utilization during a later frame(s). This means that the next GPU can’t start until these tasks are completed.

The game developers could improve performance by optimizing these dependencies or removing/reducing them. However many state-of-the-art rendering effects (especially global illumination) require these types of dependencies so it’s not in anyone’s interest to get rid of them!

In 2-way SLI, *usually* one frame is finished before the other GPU is finished and able to start the next frame. This means 100% non-idle. However, remember that the next frame can’t begin until “part A’ of the current frame ends! (say part A is the part that is input for the next frame, ex HDR resources, shadow maps, whatever they programmed). Well, obviously ‘part A’ will take more time depending on levels. Maybe some levels have many shadows or compute shader effects and others don’t. If part A takes a long time, say 50% of all render time of a frame, then you get sort of only 50% better performance compared to a single GPU (this is not the equation but close. if you are interested I can show the actual math)!

Now, if you had a faster (lower execution time) GPU that could speedup part A computation that would help! If part A now takes 25% of time of the entire frame then you would get more like 75% scaling in the same game on 2-way sli with the new GPUs. However, if the GPU completes part A and the rest faster, but part A still takes 50%, it will NOT help scaling because the ratio of part A to the total frame time is unchanged.

Quote:
The problem with current SLI scaling technology is that the entire Scalable Link Interface technology is bound by Amdahl's Law:

*edit* if you can't read the charts below then just copy it into notepad so that the lines don't wrap

SLI and crossfire work by reading in and writing out this data on a bus to the next card. One card begins execution of the next frame before the first one finishes in a pipe-like-pipe fashion (aka AFR).

Now, if you know about pipelining, you will already see the issue. Although the latency becomes more or less constant (hence the relatively smooth gameplay), there is a hefty, per-"stage" (per-GPU in this case) cost due to the non-pipelinable code - the code that must sync with the previous frame. Not only is this per-GPU, but the effects quickly stack up as I will give an example below.

Really quickly, the reason why SLI scales better over generations is because they optimize the drivers to group the cross-frame data passes together so that the initialization interval of frames is reduced.

key:
.... = idle time
+++ = cross-frame data computation time (serial code)
=== = pipelinable code
sss = SLI sync
| = present buffer (show frame)

GPU1: frame1+++++++++++sss==============================|sssframe3+++++++++++sss=======================|.......................sss
GPU2: idle..................................sss frame2+++++++++++============sss===========|...............sssframe4++++++++====================sssframe5

GPU1: frame1+++++++++++sss================|......................................................................................................sssframe5++++.
GPU2: idle..................................sss frame2+++++++++++sss============|....................................................................................................
GPU3: idle...................................................................................sss frame3+++++++++++sss============sss===========|...............................
GPU4: idle....................................................................................................................................sss frame4+++++++++++sss============sss===========|...............................
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post #23333 of 28139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Jpmboy, I get around the same CPU score in 3dm11 as Slinky (around 14,300-14,500) with my 4930K at 4700MHz. Is that too low for my clocks or about right? I used to get nearly 16k with my old 3960X at 5GHz but this stupid IB-E chip sucks and will not do anything over 4700MHz even at 1.6V! In fact, its started getting really unstable even at that and I've had to basically dial it down to 4500MHz for 24/7 stability. Looking like its gonna be time to cash in my Tuning Plan on this piece of crap very soon... :/
This was with the Titans at 1280MHz and the 4930K at 4700MHz: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Hi Eric,
I agree with you, something is not right with that Ivy-e. Here's a 4.6GHz 4.6GHz 3dmk11 physics run i just did ~ 16400 physx, close to this 3930K@5.0. Your 2 titans are really strong bud!

if you want we can take this to the ivy-e thread and work on it. you should be at or over 17,000 physx. IDK if it is teh MCE trap in ivy that is masking this (certainly the 4 core Ivy can drop MCEs (whea) and appear stable, but suffer in productivity as they repeat a procedure call until checksums match - backing up the execution stack. But I never see whea show up on 6 core ivy? Anyway, that 4930K should give higher physics scores for sure
Edited by Jpmboy - 4/19/14 at 5:10am
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post #23334 of 28139
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

lachen.gif

I didn't realize people took the HOF ranking so seriously. I thought the Bot was the only place where #s are aggregated in any serious & well policed fashion.
Looks like half of his posts have been deleted. applaud.gif following rules is hard...
Wait, doesn't HoF break you up into hardware categories? single/dual/tri/quad.
I would love to drop some benches, sadly my computer looks like this right now. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
3CaU97A.jpg
Too bad his english comprehension is so low that he couldn't figure out how to flash a 1.212V bios. rolleyes.gif

HaHow many fans is that ... 20? http://www.overclock.net/t/481420/your-computer-has-too-much-air-flow-when

Policing on the bot is basically the same as HOF - the user community polices itself. An email to HOF will get bad scores removed, and for the Bot a competitor will challenge the veracity of a score, usually on a technicality (happened to me - didn't have gpuZ open, had the full AB window open... so I ran it again and got an even higher score for the Bot team. A cheap shot IMO). Seriously OOS scores get caught at both - just an empirical observation.

yes - HOF does break it out, but includes an "ALL" roster.
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post #23335 of 28139
29, should have been 30, but I R bad @ maths.
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post #23336 of 28139
ritmatic

grab some popcorn and head over to the r295x2 thread...
Edited by Jpmboy - 4/19/14 at 12:15pm
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post #23337 of 28139
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccamRazor View Post

Less than that, 5-8%, as the difference is:

780 = 2304 cores > 384 cores difference to Titan = 2688 cores > 192 cores difference to 780Ti = 2880 cores
If the 384 cores gives an average 10% difference between the Titan and 780, then the 192 cores difference between Titan and 780Ti will give less performance than the 384 cores difference! smile.gif

It is also worth noting that is the maximum theoretical difference based in full, optimal shader utilization. The difference will also be load dependant and typically smaller.

Fewer shaders means lower TDP, and Keplers have a feature similar to TurboBoost on Core i. If you use fewer shaders, they will clock higher. I was doing initial load testing on my new 780Ti and noticed it was boosting 100MHz higher than my other one, yet it's CudaMiner throughput was half. Turns out I was testing with the wrong kernel that wasn't utilizing all the cores fully.

Anyway, the point is that more shaders won't help if the rendering kernel can't make use of all of them, and it is not by any means certain that all or even most kernels can.
post #23338 of 28139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post

Hi Eric,
I agree with you, something is not right with that Ivy-e. Here's a 4.6GHz 4.6GHz 3dmk11 physics run i just did ~ 16400 physx, close to this 3930K@5.0. Your 2 titans are really strong bud!

if you want we can take this to the ivy-e thread and work on it. you should be at or over 17,000 physx. IDK if it is teh MCE trap in ivy that is masking this (certainly the 4 core Ivy can drop MCEs (whea) and appear stable, but suffer in productivity as they repeat a procedure call until checksums match - backing up the execution stack. But I never see whea show up on 6 core ivy? Anyway, that 4930K should give higher physics scores for sure

Wow, I can't believe how crappy this 4930K I got is! This thing will never get 15k let alone 17k. I guess its time to order a new one and then set the voltage to 1.7V on this POS and be done with it. Or do you think I should go back to SBE and get another 3960X/3970X? I really don't feel like spending $1k on another CPU though...
post #23339 of 28139
Intel overclocking warranty
post #23340 of 28139
Yep. But you can't cover the "replacement" CPU they send you so I buy another one out of pocket and then sell the replacement to recoup my money. How does the 4770K do in 3dmark11 physics score? Surely no where near 17k right?
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