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[PCPer] Frame Rating Part 3: First Results - Page 6

post #51 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post


Ha, I do my best to keep posting it in these threads to help people understand.. but I feel like i'm saying the same things over and over and it's just not getting through sometimes. We need more people to explain these things, and definitely need the companies to explain it in their tests. tongue.gif

O I have noticed haha. Unfortunately, this is the internet, and a soapbox doesn't exactly get the attention for better or worse. That's why the sites need to make clear what their definition of "unplayable", "poor", "acceptable" and "unnoticeable" is and explain what at limit it becomes a non factor.
     
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post #52 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama22 View Post

I don't think anyone is doubting the data. I can attest to micro stutter happening and know it can really hamper gaming.

The problem begins when many users, including myself, do not see the micro stutter when there "should" be. It begs thr question then what exactly are "poor" "acceptable" and "unnoticeable" frame latencies.

Not only this, it is hard to translate frame latency into a performance measurement that truly equates to what you see. Fps at least has rough guidelines; 60 = target, 120 = ultra smooth, <30 = unplayable. Fps is a much less subjective measurement because of this.

I am not saying this shouldn't be used to test or review cards or setups. I think these tests only help to improve the cards themselves (7970 skyrim performance before and after tr report). But the methodology at this time is flawed in relating what you see with what the data shows.

I want a review to be subjective to an extent, I mean, it is a review right? So take those opinionated journalist, and have them tell me what they see on the screen. If you want to say your data shows there should be massive stuttering, then tell me what you actually saw. This would provide a much better springboard into determining how we measure frame times by how they affect the end user performance and enjoyment.

well said! Took the words right off my keyboard.
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post #53 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3illusiveman View Post

well that was predictable, next we will have Alatar, Cloudfire and StayPuff and all those other people who tried soo hard to justify the TITAN come in a blow the same horn.

I'd wait for more websites to do this kind of testing before it holds any water.

The Titan doesn't need any justifications really... People buy it because it's the fastest GPU by a big margin.

What I was saying was that judging the highest end products by their price/performance is about as silly as it gets due to everyone already knowing that those products will always be bad value. Everyone knows that, it didn't need 100 pages of discussion and it doesn't make the card itself any less of a beast tongue.gif

OT: I actually really like the visual presentation the pcper guys have here, explains the process and issues very well.
 
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post #54 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

I do sound like a repeating record but something many of these tests fail to mention is:
Frame lag means pretty much nothing at over 60FPS on any setup. There's a few trouble games out there (FC3), that are an exception, but for the majority of games frame lag means nothing if you can achieve of 60FPS in them. I think this is why many people think it doesn't exist, most people on 2x 7970s or 2x 680s will never drop below 60FPS.
i don't get what you're saying. You are reverting back to the FPS method you are trying to disprove to prove your point?? redface.gif

Unless you mean frame times below 16.7ms consistently what you posted contradicts everything you've been saying. What all these reviewers are saying is that you can get 90fps but if you are getting some frame times in the 40-50ms+ mark it isn't smooth and that's what produces the "stutter"
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post #55 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3illusiveman View Post

i don't get what you're saying. You are reverting back to the FPS method you are trying to disprove to prove your point?? redface.gif

Unless you mean frame times below 16.7ms consistently what you posted contradicts everything you've been saying. What all these reviewers are saying is that you can get 90fps but if you are getting some frame times in the 40-50ms+ mark it isn't smooth and that's what produces the "stutter"

Just watch the video someone linked earlier...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zOtre2f4qZs

It explains it better than I can.
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post #56 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

Well, we'll see. The difference I saw when going from one 6950 to two felt like exactly what the frames suggested -- nearly a 100% increase in performance.
Yes, the FPS number doubled. Microstuttering was really bad, however. Some titles were nearly unplayable for me despite high FPS, however, since many frames have been pretty much thrown away.
post #57 of 294
Srsly, only blind would not notice that all of this frame rate tests came into storm lately, clearly Nvidia marketing, if you think those sites do you a favour, think again.
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post #58 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyside View Post

Srsly, only blind would not notice that all of this frame rate tests came into storm lately, clearly Nvidia marketing, if you think those sites do you a favour, think again.

Seriously stop talking right now because it's nothing but misinformation coming out of your mouth.

Skyrim was a stuttering mess on my 7970 until Techreport outed them. Then and only then did AMD go back and take a look and fix it.

Skyrim on 12.11 vs Skyrim on 13.2 is like night and day.

How is it you people can be so in love with AMD that you give them a pass on so much? It makes no sense.
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post #59 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

How is it you people can be so in love with AMD that you give them a pass on so much? It makes no sense.

At first I thought it was paid "astroturfing", but then I remembered that AMD doesn't have any money for engineers and fabs, let alone internet marketing...
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post #60 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

At first I thought it was paid "astroturfing", but then I remembered that AMD doesn't have any money for engineers and fabs, let alone internet marketing...
ha... ha....

You two geniuses ever think some people aren't as sensitive to this as others? Seems like a whole lot of placebo effect going around
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