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[Discovery News] Space Radiation Probes Make 'Shock' Discovery - Page 2

post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

"not looking for" is a neutral or passive action. It would be ironic if they found what they were trying to avoid finding. Take for example: "Not trying to get an A" is not the opposite of "Trying to get an A", "Trying to not get an A" is the opposite of "Trying to get an A".

Yes, but doing action A without the intention of action B is also ironic. If a car mechanic goes for a walk, stops buy a broke down car and couple to help them. After the car is fixed, you would say it was ironic that it broke down as a mechanic was walking buy. If he didn't happen to walk by, it wouldn't be an ironic situation. It can be irony if the situation is something that calls for it. It was ironic that the car broke down while a mechanic was walking by.

2. Happening in the opposite way to what is expected, thus typically causing wry amusement.

You can also look at the space discovery with the same outlook. It is somewhat humorous (wry amusement, non mocking) that they did a simple maintenance routine and instead found something. If you didn't get what I was talking about earlier, it was situation and not abut neutral or passive actions. Since a situation is also an object, constituted as a noun, it can also be ironic. Hence situational irony, they may not have been intending to look. Not looking isn't exactly an action all together, however they did an action that had an opposite effect. The finding of a discovery would be on the opposite end of regular maintenance. Or you could also think about it in the terms that they did the action, maintenance, but experienced a rather unexpected outcome. That sound more familiar to the definition?

So yes, this can be ironic in the right view. Not everyone sees things in the same light, so some might say something is ironic where others do not see it. Either way, yes this could be ironic.

Anyways, this is kind of a huge tangent so we should probably stop discussing english. =P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faraz View Post

Nope.

Read above.
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post #12 of 28
[pedantry]
Edited by lowfiwhiteguy - 3/7/13 at 5:13pm
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post #13 of 28
Yeah, accident is simply not the same as irony. By definition. You can't disagree with definitions.
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post #14 of 28

Speaks volumes for the subject matter when all people can argue about is how a word was used.

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post #15 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post

Speaks volumes for the subject matter when all people can argue about is how a word was used.

This, a thousand times. It just wasn't a very good article, hahaha. "So, we did this thing, right? And turns out, we don't know what happened, but we found this other thing. Dunno what it is, though. Weird, eh?"
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post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Yes, but doing action A without the intention of action B is also ironic. If a car mechanic goes for a walk, stops buy a broke down car and couple to help them. After the car is fixed, you would say it was ironic that it broke down as a mechanic was walking buy. If he didn't happen to walk by, it wouldn't be an ironic situation. It can be irony if the situation is something that calls for it. It was ironic that the car broke down while a mechanic was walking by.

2. Happening in the opposite way to what is expected, thus typically causing wry amusement.

You can also look at the space discovery with the same outlook. It is somewhat humorous (wry amusement, non mocking) that they did a simple maintenance routine and instead found something. If you didn't get what I was talking about earlier, it was situation and not abut neutral or passive actions. Since a situation is also an object, constituted as a noun, it can also be ironic. Hence situational irony, they may not have been intending to look. Not looking isn't exactly an action all together, however they did an action that had an opposite effect. The finding of a discovery would be on the opposite end of regular maintenance. Or you could also think about it in the terms that they did the action, maintenance, but experienced a rather unexpected outcome. That sound more familiar to the definition?

So yes, this can be ironic in the right view. Not everyone sees things in the same light, so some might say something is ironic where others do not see it. Either way, yes this could be ironic.

Anyways, this is kind of a huge tangent so we should probably stop discussing english. =P
Read above.


Irony is not unique to English
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post #17 of 28

Guys, 

 

Lets keep on topic please. I think we can move on without any further English lessons smile.gif

post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfiwhiteguy View Post

As an English literature major (before I took it upon myself to become a mechanical engineer) I have to categorically assert that what you are describing is not irony. I often corrected first year English students' work, and found they had the same difficulty in distinguishing irony from happen-stance or unlikely, undesirable outcomes in short stories, etc. Irony is a perfect inversion of reasonable expectation. What you are describing is not this.

Merriam-Webster defines irony as:
1: a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other’s false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning —called also Socratic irony
2: a) the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning
b) a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony
c) an ironic expression or utterance
3: a) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result; an event or result marked by such incongruity
b) incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play —called also dramatic irony, tragic irony
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irony

I'm going to follow Merriam Webster, 3a. Incongruity does not imply perfect inversion, otherwise I'm sure another word would be used. So... an incongruity could be the discovery instead of casual maintenance. I don't care if your an english major, I passed college classes with my eyes closed. It's an easy subject, no offense. I don't read incongruity as a direct inversion (perfect inversion, was busy with EDID stuff when I wrote this), while normally that is the case (irony).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post

Speaks volumes for the subject matter when all people can argue about is how a word was used.

Ever check spelling errors for online journalists? Man, journalism has gone downhill so bad since the internet came out. Half the time I skim articles and go research the subject matter myself if I'm interested. Point being, most online journalists are awful.

[edit - All] Part of this is perspective, it's hard to argue something when two people read the same sentence and get different experiences. To say, we can read the same sentence differently.

edit2, crap didn't see the post above... was probably writing this one and making sure my Ts were crossed (obviously out the window now). I'll stop though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Irony is not unique to English

Don't speak other languages so I can't discuss them but I get your point. wink.gif
Edited by mushroomboy - 3/7/13 at 12:07pm
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post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTERPRISE View Post

Guys, 

Lets keep on topic please. I think we can move on without any further English lessons smile.gif

While it heartens me to know we have many a people here who love to discuss the intricacies of the English language I must concur with the honourable gentleman above and request we move on to the topic at hand, which is science, rather than the continuation of discussion of matters unrelated to the Orginal Post.
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post #20 of 28
zomgs i's hates englishes. i testeds out ofs thats class

"Those kinds of radiation environments (around Earth) have not been taken into account in some of the modeling for (spacecraft) design and other purposes. That will have to be factored in"
that quote makes me feel sorry for the astro/cosmonauts on the iss, sucking up those rads all day for 6 months puke.gif
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Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 2x JBL Loft 40s 12" Subwoofer 
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AMD FX 8350 ASUS Sabertooth Gen3 Gigabyte 6950 1GB Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 
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Hitachi 2TB OCZ Vertex HP dvd1040 windows 10 x64 
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Xeon W3680 HP 786G3 Quadro 2000 Gigabyte HD 7850 
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Elpida PC3-12800 Seagate  HP DVD RW Windows 7 x64 
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HP LP2465 HP Compaq LA2405x HP Compaq LA2405x Wireless Comfort 4000 
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