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[ARS Technica] “Download this gun”: 3D-printed semi-automatic fires over 600 rounds - Page 3  

post #21 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by pips View Post

Don't see what the big deal is. Qualifying gun owners can already buy the real thing for less than 1550 bucks. Also, am I missing something? Only the magazine and lower assembly is available for printing. The article tries to mislead you and say that the lower contains most the crucial parts of the rifle but clearly this is inaccurate. It contains the safety, trigger assembly, and magazine well. In my opinion the BCG alone is at least as important as all those parts, let alone the barrel and charging handle.

If you are able to afford a whole upper assembly of an ar 15, I'm pretty sure you would also be willing to spend the additional 100 bucks or so to get a lower assembly that will be much more reliable than a 3-D printed one.

It's not so much about getting cheap guns, its about getting around laws. You may very well end up spending MORE for your gun with a 3d printed lower, but it will have no serial number and if the article is correct, be completely legal. You could get a gun with no background checks, no liscences, no fees to the state (NJ charges for a Firearms ID Card).

I think the other fear is ease of distibution. Making a gun with a traditional machine shop requires at least some skill and a significant amount of time. Spending $2000 on an Ultimaker or eventually the SLA Form 1 will get you a working out of the box printer and you could have a lower printing 24/7 largely unsupervised. Thousands of these could be printed and shipped all over the US with a starup costs of less than $10,000 (The Ultimaker and RepRap dont use $200 expensive resin, it uses $40-$50 spools of ABS). Even if they do only last 10-60 shots on cheaper comercial grade printers/plastic, thats more than enough to do bad things with a LEGAL, untracked firearm.

It isn't earth-shattering, but I can see why this issue is touchy. A lot of people are afraid of guns and dont understand technology. This sort of rolls both of them together into a frenzy of confusion and fear.
    
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post #22 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WR6133 View Post

No just no

You don't assemble a weapon from a mismash of components slap on a sight and hit a target over a mile away with 1 shot (that being as per your implication the only shot that has been fired from the rifle). If you think thats doable you watch to many B-grade films.
This is what the black market is for stop scare mongering for somebody who in a previous thread attempts to appear pro-gun/gun-literate you don't half seem to spout some crazy nonsense.

Tell you what while you are 3D printing yourself a small arsenal, I'll download how to build a small nuclear weapon as the ability to produce a thermonuclear fireball is also priceless to some people.

I didn't say you could I said the .408 round was capable of hitting 1+ miles and that a polymer action COULD withstand the head pressure. Which, is actually true.

I'm not fearmongering (The actual term)...I'm just saying it's more then possible.

Right now, you can buy everything you wanted, have it here in less then 2 days and print an action for a .408 ~ Bed it in a $200 polymer McMillan or hell, buy a stock savage, glass bed it, print your action, headspace the barrel, true the bolt and bam for under $750 you now have an unregistered weapon, capable of reaching out to 2 miles.

Now of course you need the glass, which will easily add onto that but, the point is registration.

The entire political climate currently is about registration -- What's the 1 thing gun owners don't want to do? Register their weapon.

That's it, it's really that simple...Make your own weapon and you don't have to register it. Period. Done. End.
Edited by Masked - 3/1/13 at 11:45am
post #23 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Actually, in the current panic, you really can't but, that's okay...I don't expect computer enthusiasts to know/understand that.

You're also incorrect.

The lower is the only part of a rifle you need to have REGISTERED. -- You can buy the rest, willy nilly.

The article is making the point that you could obtain this firearm and/or a pistol without the need to register the weapon what-so-ever.

Point in fact, before the panic, you could buy 1/2 the uppers on the market for less then $700...Throw on a lower and a LPK, Stock...You've got a rifle for less then 1k out the door with an infinite set of lowers...and mags...Or pistol frames...

Actually, the prices are already stabilizing from what I've seen at my LGS. Considering that the AWB's odds of passing as is are considerably lower than before, I would bet that it doesn't pass at all and then the prices would be the same as the pre-panic prices you stated.


I don't know how it is where you live, but here in Texas my non NFA rifles and pistols aren't registered to anything. I fail to see your point.
post #24 of 105
Doesn't it still make more sense to just build the gun with a CNC, though?
post #25 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pips View Post

Actually, the prices are already stabilizing from what I've seen at my LGS. Considering that the AWB's odds of passing as is are considerably lower than before, I would bet that it doesn't pass at all and then the prices would be the same as the pre-panic prices you stated.


I don't know how it is where you live, but here in Texas my non NFA rifles and pistols aren't registered to anything. I fail to see your point.

SAFE act...Connecticuts current legislation...

Are you a gun owner or pretending to be one because I've never met a gun owner in New England that's actually FOR registering their weapons.

Every NICS check you actually do, is recorded with that serial number. So, they basically already have a registry...

This allows a circumventing of the check altogether so, isn't recorded at all.

I really don't understand why this is so complicated.

Make your own lower and it doesn't get registered or recorded, anywhere nor are you obligated to register it because it's a prototype.
post #26 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post


The entire political climate currently is about registration -- What's the 1 thing gun owners don't want to do? Register their weapon.

So who is going to print these?

Criminals?

No they get guns no matter what "control" is in place come look at the UK for an example of that where in many inner cities a bag of crack and a 9mm pistol are faster delivered than a Dominos 12" Hawaian.

Normal gun owners?

Doubt it this just goes against the grain of what 99% of legit owners are likely to do. Spend alot and do something that could possibly under future legislation be illegal?

The only people going to be doing this are sensationalist idiots wanting to either make a name for themselves by using it as a scare tool to further stringent gun control or too write third rate articles online. Either of those being a cancer on society and shouldn't be give the time of day or thought process needed to create a sentence.

And with that adieu like i said last year you are a walter mitty and I really can't be bothered debating with you again.
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post #27 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post


Ultimaker and Repraps are 2 commercially available 3d printers for less then $1,000.

It's the resin that really matters which can be had for @ $150-200 per lower.

Also, I don't know about you but, registration is a big deal...The ability to make a firearm that's unregistered is priceless to some people.

You cannot get an Ultimaker for under $1000. Small detail, but still.

Neither of these printers use resin either. Resin is used on SLA (stereolithograpgy) printers. The cheapest by far comes in around $2500 and isn't for sale yet. It's the Form 1. Other SLA printers are VERY expensive.

The Ultimaker aand Reprap use ABS/PLA filament, which costs about $50 for a spool of a KG or so. I imagine multiple lowers could be printed with a KG of plastic, but they won't be the 1000 round beasts made on the comercial grade printers.

Just some printer clarification here. My MendelMax is almost ready for its first print.
Edited by DayoftheGreek - 3/1/13 at 9:14am
    
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post #28 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WR6133 View Post

So who is going to print these?

Criminals?

No they get guns no matter what "control" is in place come look at the UK for an example of that where in many inner cities a bag of crack and a 9mm pistol are faster delivered than a Dominos 12" Hawaian.

Normal gun owners?

Doubt it this just goes against the grain of what 99% of legit owners are likely to do. Spend alot and do something that could possibly under future legislation be illegal?

The only people going to be doing this are sensationalist idiots wanting to either make a name for themselves by using it as a scare tool to further stringent gun control or too write third rate articles online. Either of those being a cancer on society and shouldn't be give the time of day or thought process needed to create a sentence.

And with that adieu like i said last year you are a walter mitty and I really can't be bothered debating with you again.

I actually just ordered a custom Chey-Tac M200 so, quite frankly, I have no need to print my own lowers but, my gunsmith actually sent this article to me and wants to try it out.

It's interesting that Gunsmiths disagree with your stance, in mass...I guess they see the silver lining and you don't.

I don't know who Walter Mitty is but, googling it would be a waste of my time. ~ I can't be bothered as you so eloquently put it.

Call your gunsmith, I'm sure he'll disagree with you about the capabilities of printed actions/receivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek View Post

You cannot get an Ultimaker for under $1000. Small detail, but still.

Neither of these printers use resin either. Resin is used on SLA (stereolithograpgy) printers. The cheapest by far comes in around $2500 and isn't for sale yet. It's the Form 1. Other SLA printers are VERY expensive.

The Ultimaker aand Reprap use ABS/PLA filament, which costs about $50 for a spool of a KG or so. I imagine multiple lowers could be printed with a KG of plastic, but they won't be the 1000 round beasts made on the comercial grade printers.

Just some printer clarification here. My MendelMax is almost ready for its first print.

I was just making a general point -- I understand they're a bit more.

You can still ebay these for less then 1k... and while they're not all resin, the most successful lowers to date have been resin.

It will be interesting to see what comes of this, still.
post #29 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

SAFE act...Connecticuts current legislation...

Are you a gun owner or pretending to be one because I've never met a gun owner in New England that's actually FOR registering their weapons.

Every NICS check you actually do, is recorded with that serial number. So, they basically already have a registry...

This allows a circumventing of the check altogether so, isn't recorded at all.

I really don't understand why this is so complicated.

Make your own lower and it doesn't get registered or recorded, anywhere nor are you obligated to register it because it's a prototype.

Where in my posts are you getting the opinion that I'm for registration? You are seeing what you want to see.

I'm not for registering my weapons so your efforts are in vain. If it avoids weapon registration then I'm all for it. I seriously doubt the amount of murders by "assault weapons" increase both statistically and significantly because of a 3-D printed lower. If it does then I'll admit I am in the wrong but until then I am in the right and everyone on the other side of the argument is wrong.
post #30 of 105
This is pretty cool.
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