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detailed as possible: help with ram selection, finalizing new build.

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
i am in the last steps of gathering my last parts for my new build, this is , my first build and it has been over all confusing with all the information and opinion of others.

parts
p8z77-pro mobo
i7 3770k cpu
500r case
samsung 840 pro ssd

now it comes down to what i found most confusing, ram selection
daily task
:photo editing , unzipping files (rar,zip, etc), occasional video editing
: hd video watching
: multiple web window browsing
- all these i want to do simultaneously

i think i have pretty much settled with 16gb for overkill, but i am more or less confused to what ram to choose. price isnt too much of an issue, but do not want to spend reclessly

i have tried to figure out cas latency vs speed, i have yet to determine what is the best way to go.
i have seen in the 16gb club section people have generally used a g skill 1600mhz 9-9-9-24
ram.

i learned that having dual is better than quad ( 2 sticks vs 4 sticks)
- people with the 9-9-9-24 have quad? i was only able to find trident x which latency is 7-8-8-24, does having quad in 16gb format better?
- for fastest should i find a latency that is lower?
-suggestions?


i also learned that the speeds of ram 1333, 1600, 2100 are not actual speeds of the ram, but promised speeds of the ram and that they actually are only able to get half its stated speed.
- so if i wanted the fastest, should i get 2100?
- how do i get max speed of any ram i get?


i will also be trying to make my computer as silent as possible, so i also want it to be watercooled, i havent yet decided that yet.
- is it important for me to get a low profile ram since i have an ivy bridge ?

i will also be attempting to oc the computer.
- in what terms does that all play into my ram selection?
- is oc for ram generally jst bios settings?
- i researched that if you changed the speed of your ram, you would also need to figure out what latency to set it to make it stable.. how is that figured out?

as you can see, i am pretty confused. the more research and reading has made it more confusing. hopefully this can be settled an ill be using my new computer sooon.


thanks, all the help is appreciated.
post #2 of 20
I'll do my best to answer the many questions you have.

First, you need one of these kits:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006072&IsNodeId=1&Description=gskill%2016gb&name=16GB%20%282%20x%208GB%29&Order=PRICED&Pagesize=20

DDR3-2400 is the fastest you need for this motherboard and CPU.

Enable XMP Profile in BIOS/EFI and the memory will work at DDR3-2400, the rated spec.

Real frequency is only half stated frequency because DDR is double data rate. Real frequency * 2 = DDR3 effective frequency

Low profile RAM is always good, Trident X has a removable fin, so it is low profile.

OC for RAM is just testing different settings to see what the CPU and memory is capable of.

This includes testing to see what timings and frequency is stable.

It is best to post your information and people can help where they can.

Cheers
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
thanks for the much needed reply. i greatly appreciate it!

if 2400 is the max for my mobo, why is it that most people use 1600?
if i remove the fin, would that cause heating issues?
i see that in that list there are rams that have latency at 10, is that slow compared to a 1600 and latency that is 9-9-9-24
are there any other ram to accomplish my needs? because i only see g skill trident as being the cheapest, not fully understanding why each after has increase of pricing..



again thanks for the help.. it has been one frustrating journey.




Quote:
Originally Posted by timisyourfriend View Post

I'll do my best to answer the many questions you have.

First, you need one of these kits:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006072&IsNodeId=1&Description=gskill%2016gb&name=16GB%20%282%20x%208GB%29&Order=PRICED&Pagesize=20

DDR3-2400 is the fastest you need for this motherboard and CPU.

Enable XMP Profile in BIOS/EFI and the memory will work at DDR3-2400, the rated spec.

Real frequency is only half stated frequency because DDR is double data rate. Real frequency * 2 = DDR3 effective frequency

Low profile RAM is always good, Trident X has a removable fin, so it is low profile.

OC for RAM is just testing different settings to see what the CPU and memory is capable of.

This includes testing to see what timings and frequency is stable.

It is best to post your information and people can help where they can.

Cheers
post #4 of 20
- on two 8Gb vs four 4Gb modules:
4Gb modules themselves are able to offer better frequency/timing combinations than 8Gb modules, but running four modules simultaneously might be tough on CPU's memory controller so if you really want 16Gb - it's best to stay on the safe side and buy a pair of 8Gb.

- on technical aspects of DDR3:
As already mentioned, memory rating = memory frequency * 2. For example, DDR3-1600 is 800MHz, DDR3-1866 is 933MHz and so on.
Using a Z77 board, a 3x70K CPU will give you a wide range of memory multipliers to choose from - DDR3-1333, 1400, 1600, 1800, 1866, 2000, 2133, 2200, 2400, 2600, 2666, 2800 and 2933.
However, ones past 2400 might be difficult to get to work as that would require luck on the CPU (since integrated memory controllers vary from sample to sample) and a good motherboard.
The "DDR3-xxxx supported" claims you see coming with motherboards are nothing more than figures the maker feels comfortable advertising. For example, if a board has "DDR3-2133" written on it - it doesn't imply that every single DDR3-2133 rated memory kit will work fine and/or DDR3-2400 won't work at all.

- on memory frequency vs timings:
Generally, Ivy Bridge CPUs (like the one you're going to buy) prefer higher memory frequency to lower timings. However, past a certain level (approximately DDR3-1866 CL9) the real-life gain from faster memory becomes so small that it's not worth the extra investment.
So you might just settle for something like these or these.

- on overclocking:
If you are going to overclock your CPU, you can generally expect slightly less stabilty (on CPU side) when using higher memory frequencies.
The frequency and timings to which you will be able to overclock your memory depend on the model of memory chips that are under the heatspreaders. Unless you know that - it's trial and error method, mostly.
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
thanks for the help, i am still abit confused as what memory frequency *2 means.

so should i get anything that is 16gb 2400 with the lowest cas?
post #6 of 20
What you need to know is that if you buy 2400Mhz RAM and your CPU/Mobo are up to it, you will run at 2400Mhz. If at anytime you open say CPU-Z and your memory speed reads "1200Mhz" just multiply that by 2 and you have 2400Mhz which is correct.

In my case I have 16GB of RAM rated at 1600Mhz @ 7-8-8-24-2T and I have it overclocked to 2133Mhz 9-10-10-28-2T.
If you click on the 5.5Ghz CPU-Z link in my sig and look at the memory section it will say

"RAM Speed : 1066.9 MHz (1:8) @ 9-10-10-28"

Take 1066.9 and multiply that by 2 and you get an actual speed of 2133.8Mhz.

For me at least, running 4x4GB instead of 2x8GB sticks hasn't seemed to affect anything at all.
    
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post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
from what i gathered so far is that 2400 is the fastest my mobo will achieve, so shall i get ram that is 16gb 2400?
or do i get 16gb 1600?

still confused as to how cas plays into this because 16gb 2400 latency is higher than 1600mhz.

also it seems that the only option i have is a trident x, unless i pay 150+
how did people in 16gb club get low latencys? 9-9-9-24

what i am worried about from all the reading is that buying 2400 doesnt mean you get 2400mhz. so i am unable to decide what ram to get

again, thanks to all those who are helping me understand better
post #8 of 20
Just because RAM is rated at certain speed/timings doesn't mean it can't do better. You can add voltage to the RAM and/or memory controller to stabilize it at higher frequencies or lower latencies the same way you would a CPU or GPU.

Also, there are lots of 2400Mhz kits out there, not sure why you are only looking at the Tridents?

What I would do is buy some decent 2133 RAM and overclock it. If you are uncomfortable with the idea your gonna have to pay more money to get something "guaranteed" for that speed out of the box. If your system is incapable of running 2400Mhz RAM then it will run at lower speeds no problem however overclocking is never guaranteed so that decision is yours and yours alone to make.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4690k Asus Maximus VII Hero Galax GTX 970 EXOC Black Edition Corsair Vengeance LP CML16GX3M4X1600C7 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Caviar Black 1TB Crucial BX100 250GB Crucial M4 128GB Corsair H110 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win7 Pro 64bit Asus VE278H 27" Logitech G510 PCP&C Silencer MKII 950 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair 650D Corsair Vengeance M65 Asus Xonar DX 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4690k Asus Maximus VII Hero Galax GTX 970 EXOC Black Edition Corsair Vengeance LP CML16GX3M4X1600C7 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Caviar Black 1TB Crucial BX100 250GB Crucial M4 128GB Corsair H110 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win7 Pro 64bit Asus VE278H 27" Logitech G510 PCP&C Silencer MKII 950 
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post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 
i guess what i dont understand is that ive read that by buying something that says 2400mhz does not mean you get 2400mhz.

so if i get something that said 2400mhz an set it in bios, i will be getting 2400mhz?

looking at trident because it is the cheapest 16gb (2x8) and i dont undersfand my other options

i also read that people are saying to get 1600mhz because if has lower cas. which is also what everyone has in the 16gb club.. not understand why anymore.

this is all but confusing. i am finding it hard to find one consensus for all this. i am being told different left and right. also new information that makes it more confusing nor concise.
post #10 of 20
Latency and speed are intertwined. 2400 CAS9 will have lower latency than 1600 9, so you want to go with the fastest RAM you can, and then find the kit with the best timings for that speed.

People recommend 1600 because they are misinformed about the benefits of high speed memory. Faster memory results in higher minimum FPS in games, and it makes everything else feel snappier.
   
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LG/Hitachi Slim DVD-R/W Custom MB-Backside VRM-sinks (Copper) 3x NZXT RF-FX140LB 1-2krpm 98.3CFM Case Fans 2x Corsair SP120-PE Case Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Heatkiller GTX680 "Hole Edition" Block + Backplate XSPC Single-Bay Res (Single 5.25 bay) EK Multioption Res X2 - Advanced 150 DD "Fill-Port Res" + Fill-Port Fitting (Red) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
2x MCP35X + Heatsinks/80x15mm Fan XSPC EX420 Alphacool NeXXos UT60 240 6x Bgears Blasters 140mm 1800rpm Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
4x Koolance 120x25mm 2600rpm Fans Comp/Rotary Fittings (BP/XSPC/Monsoon) Primoflex Pro LRT - White (1/2x3/4) Windows 7 Professional 64bit  
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
Dell P2210Hb 21.5" 1920x1080p Viewsonic VA2012WB 20.1" LCD 1680x1050 Dell U3014 Eizo 27" 1440p 10bit RGB-LED Backlit AH-IPS Panel 
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i7 3930K @ 4.92Ghz Asus Rampage 4 Extreme EVGA GTX670 FTW 2GB  EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws-Z @ DDR3-2248 9-10-9-26 1T Samsung 830 256GB SSD WD10EZEX 1TB HDD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD10EALX 1TB HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1TB WD3200AAKS 320GB HDD WD5000HHTZ 10krpm 500GB VelociRaptor 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG/Hitachi Slim DVD-R/W Custom MB-Backside VRM-sinks (Copper) 3x NZXT RF-FX140LB 1-2krpm 98.3CFM Case Fans 2x Corsair SP120-PE Case Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Heatkiller GTX680 "Hole Edition" Block + Backplate XSPC Single-Bay Res (Single 5.25 bay) EK Multioption Res X2 - Advanced 150 DD "Fill-Port Res" + Fill-Port Fitting (Red) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
2x MCP35X + Heatsinks/80x15mm Fan XSPC EX420 Alphacool NeXXos UT60 240 6x Bgears Blasters 140mm 1800rpm Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
4x Koolance 120x25mm 2600rpm Fans Comp/Rotary Fittings (BP/XSPC/Monsoon) Primoflex Pro LRT - White (1/2x3/4) Windows 7 Professional 64bit  
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
Dell P2210Hb 21.5" 1920x1080p Viewsonic VA2012WB 20.1" LCD 1680x1050 Dell U3014 Eizo 27" 1440p 10bit RGB-LED Backlit AH-IPS Panel 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
55" LG HDTV (their top 2014 model) Ducky Mechanical (Browns) NZXT HALE90 850W + 8 blown-up AX1200/i's NZXT Switch 810 (White) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
R.A.T.3 + MX510 My Desk GRADO RS1i Headphones Grado PS1000 Headphones 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Bitfenix Hydra Pro Fan Controller 5ch 30W/ch Bitfenix Alchemy Individually-Sleeved Extension... NZXT Individually-Sleeved Front Panel Wires (Bl... Phobya Sleeved 1x3pin-to-4x3pin Fan Splitter 
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