Overclock.net › Forums › General Hardware › General Processor Discussions › How to explain to a friend that the Mhz Myth, is a myth?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

How to explain to a friend that the Mhz Myth, is a myth? - Page 8

post #71 of 120
I have a serious suggestion:

OP, I assume you have a reasonably modern rig. Could you simply demonstrate to your friend that games with a graphics card do better than without? (As in, on your rig, demonstrate with / without graphics). To make a better demonstration, you could underclock your cpu to 1.5 GHz to match the Pentium 4, and demonstrate that even with the same speed, your's is faster. Since he won't believe benchmarks, you can test boot times with the same startup disk.
Livingroom rig
(9 items)
 
Retro!
(16 items)
 
DIY Laptop
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-3570K @4.3GHz ASRock Z77 Extreme4-M Radeon HD 7970 GHz 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
Intel 520 SSD 240GB Bluray / DVD combo Win 7 Home 64 Seasonic 550W modular 
Case
NZXT Vulcan 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Athlon 64 FX-55 Clawhammer Or Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester Asus A8N32 - SLI ATI Radeon X850 XT PE 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
Or MSI GeForce 210 4 x 1GB Corsair XMS 500MHz OCz Agility 2 LITE-ON DVD 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Antec Kuhler 920 Win 7 Home Premium OEM Antec High Current Pro NZXT Phantom 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i5-3360M @2.8-3.5GHz nVidia GT 650M @1GHz 2x4GB G.Skill 1600MHz Crucial M4 SSD 128GB 
OSMonitorCase
Ubuntu 12.04 11.6in, 1366x768 Clevo W110ER 
  hide details  
Reply
Livingroom rig
(9 items)
 
Retro!
(16 items)
 
DIY Laptop
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-3570K @4.3GHz ASRock Z77 Extreme4-M Radeon HD 7970 GHz 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
Intel 520 SSD 240GB Bluray / DVD combo Win 7 Home 64 Seasonic 550W modular 
Case
NZXT Vulcan 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Athlon 64 FX-55 Clawhammer Or Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester Asus A8N32 - SLI ATI Radeon X850 XT PE 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
Or MSI GeForce 210 4 x 1GB Corsair XMS 500MHz OCz Agility 2 LITE-ON DVD 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Antec Kuhler 920 Win 7 Home Premium OEM Antec High Current Pro NZXT Phantom 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i5-3360M @2.8-3.5GHz nVidia GT 650M @1GHz 2x4GB G.Skill 1600MHz Crucial M4 SSD 128GB 
OSMonitorCase
Ubuntu 12.04 11.6in, 1366x768 Clevo W110ER 
  hide details  
Reply
post #72 of 120
Here is another thought:
You could trick him into getting a good computer like so: It is known that an FX-8350 overclocks higher than any Pentium 4. To get around the issue of having to divide the speed by 8 for each core tongue.gif, you can show him how to disable all but one core so it runs at maximum speed rolleyes.gif
A single piledriver core at say 6GHz actually isn't that bad. Anyway, once he has that setup, you can (just for fun) enable the other cores and show him the magical difference of a modern processor architecture with multiple cores and still a higher clock rate. It's a win - win - win. (An i7-3770K would also do nicely, I just used the FX-8350 as an example since it holds single core overclocking records).
Livingroom rig
(9 items)
 
Retro!
(16 items)
 
DIY Laptop
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-3570K @4.3GHz ASRock Z77 Extreme4-M Radeon HD 7970 GHz 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
Intel 520 SSD 240GB Bluray / DVD combo Win 7 Home 64 Seasonic 550W modular 
Case
NZXT Vulcan 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Athlon 64 FX-55 Clawhammer Or Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester Asus A8N32 - SLI ATI Radeon X850 XT PE 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
Or MSI GeForce 210 4 x 1GB Corsair XMS 500MHz OCz Agility 2 LITE-ON DVD 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Antec Kuhler 920 Win 7 Home Premium OEM Antec High Current Pro NZXT Phantom 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i5-3360M @2.8-3.5GHz nVidia GT 650M @1GHz 2x4GB G.Skill 1600MHz Crucial M4 SSD 128GB 
OSMonitorCase
Ubuntu 12.04 11.6in, 1366x768 Clevo W110ER 
  hide details  
Reply
Livingroom rig
(9 items)
 
Retro!
(16 items)
 
DIY Laptop
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-3570K @4.3GHz ASRock Z77 Extreme4-M Radeon HD 7970 GHz 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
Intel 520 SSD 240GB Bluray / DVD combo Win 7 Home 64 Seasonic 550W modular 
Case
NZXT Vulcan 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Athlon 64 FX-55 Clawhammer Or Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester Asus A8N32 - SLI ATI Radeon X850 XT PE 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
Or MSI GeForce 210 4 x 1GB Corsair XMS 500MHz OCz Agility 2 LITE-ON DVD 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Antec Kuhler 920 Win 7 Home Premium OEM Antec High Current Pro NZXT Phantom 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i5-3360M @2.8-3.5GHz nVidia GT 650M @1GHz 2x4GB G.Skill 1600MHz Crucial M4 SSD 128GB 
OSMonitorCase
Ubuntu 12.04 11.6in, 1366x768 Clevo W110ER 
  hide details  
Reply
post #73 of 120
hell i have a 3.8 pentuim d i'll sell him for 200 it even has ht biggrin.gif
circeseye
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
fx- 8350 ASUS M5A99X EVO powercolor R9 380 4 gig  x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Plextor PX-64M5M Samsung 840 LG Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 12X DVD-RA... air for now 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 Pro 73in mitsubishi 3d dlp PSFY mechanical led gaming keyboard Rosewill Xtreme Series RX750-S-B 
CaseMouseAudio
CoolerMaster hav-xb Perixx gaming mouse onboard w/ rca 800watt 7.1 surround 
  hide details  
Reply
circeseye
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
fx- 8350 ASUS M5A99X EVO powercolor R9 380 4 gig  x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Plextor PX-64M5M Samsung 840 LG Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 12X DVD-RA... air for now 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 Pro 73in mitsubishi 3d dlp PSFY mechanical led gaming keyboard Rosewill Xtreme Series RX750-S-B 
CaseMouseAudio
CoolerMaster hav-xb Perixx gaming mouse onboard w/ rca 800watt 7.1 surround 
  hide details  
Reply
post #74 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogger4 View Post

I have a serious suggestion:

OP, I assume you have a reasonably modern rig. Could you simply demonstrate to your friend that games with a graphics card do better than without? (As in, on your rig, demonstrate with / without graphics). To make a better demonstration, you could underclock your cpu to 1.5 GHz to match the Pentium 4, and demonstrate that even with the same speed, your's is faster. Since he won't believe benchmarks, you can test boot times with the same startup disk.

I'm using a four year old N61Jq laptop. It has an i7 720qm (1.6 GHz quad-core), and a Radeon Mobility 5730. I don't plan on getting a gaming rig since I have college in this fall, so I'm going to get an A10-5750m laptop.


I suppose I could try and find a way to disable HT, three of the cores, and lock it at 900 MHz (through Power Saving mode), then run CPU benchmarks on it to show him that the P4 is a bad choice for a gaming CPU.

I'll let you know what is his response.

EDIT: I'm going to be a bit busy for a week or so, and he lives across the town, so it's going to take a while. Hopefully he doesn't place an order for a new P4 and a mobo during that time.
Edited by A Bad Day - 3/12/13 at 6:50pm
post #75 of 120
I think the best example to use would be: what would get more work done, a college track-star sprinter carrying stuff in his hands, or 24 regular guys with wheelbarrows all working at the same time? If he chooses the first one, your response should be "You...are the weakest link. Goodbye." rolleyes.gif
post #76 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

I'm using a four year old N61Jq laptop. It has an i7 720qm (1.6 GHz quad-core), and a Radeon Mobility 5730. I don't plan on getting a gaming rig since I have college in this fall, so I'm going to get an A10-5750m laptop.


I suppose I could try and find a way to disable HT, three of the cores, and lock it at 900 MHz (through Power Saving mode), then run CPU benchmarks on it to show him that the P4 is a bad choice for a gaming CPU.

I'll let you know what is his response.

EDIT: I'm going to be a bit busy for a week or so, and he lives across the town, so it's going to take a while. Hopefully he doesn't place an order for a new P4 and a mobo during that time.

offtopic.gif That's the same as my old laptop! Such a nice design and they are tough! Shame they run so hot and the battery is terrible though! tongue.gif
 
Seven Seven Five
(12 items)
 
NASSY
(5 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Convertible i5 3570k (De-Lidded) Gigabyte Z77x-D3H XFX R9 290 With Koolance Block (1179/1450) 16GB G-Skill Ares 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Evo Seagate Barracuda 2TB 1x OEM DVD Drives Heatkiller Rev 3.0 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC RX360 Laing D5 + XSPC Res Primochill Bloodshed Red Tubing Koolance Fullcover R9 290x Block 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
XSPC EX360 Windows 10 Pro x64 Asus VEH228H Asus VE228H 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Aavara TS742 Dual Monitor Stand Ducky Shine II Cherry Blue RED Backlit Mechanic... Silverstone Strider 850W Thermaltake Core x71 Tempered Glass Riing Edition 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Zowie FK1 House of Stealth Microlab Solo6c Logitech C100 Webcam 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Celeron N3160 HD Graphics 400 4GB DDR3 4TB WD Red 
Cooling
Some 120mm fan 
  hide details  
Reply
 
Seven Seven Five
(12 items)
 
NASSY
(5 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Convertible i5 3570k (De-Lidded) Gigabyte Z77x-D3H XFX R9 290 With Koolance Block (1179/1450) 16GB G-Skill Ares 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Evo Seagate Barracuda 2TB 1x OEM DVD Drives Heatkiller Rev 3.0 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC RX360 Laing D5 + XSPC Res Primochill Bloodshed Red Tubing Koolance Fullcover R9 290x Block 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
XSPC EX360 Windows 10 Pro x64 Asus VEH228H Asus VE228H 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Aavara TS742 Dual Monitor Stand Ducky Shine II Cherry Blue RED Backlit Mechanic... Silverstone Strider 850W Thermaltake Core x71 Tempered Glass Riing Edition 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Zowie FK1 House of Stealth Microlab Solo6c Logitech C100 Webcam 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Celeron N3160 HD Graphics 400 4GB DDR3 4TB WD Red 
Cooling
Some 120mm fan 
  hide details  
Reply
post #77 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

Recently I got in a dispute with him. He insists that because a Pentium 4 has higher clock rate than the GTX Titan (seriously), the P4 is faster, and it's cheaper because the Extreme Edition is priced a little less than $200. I shows him a benchmark result of the CPUs getting trashed in real-time graphics rendering, but he insist that they're fake.

In short, he wants a Windows 7 P4 rig, with no GPU and have the P4 run all of the graphics. Mind you that he's looking at a single core P4.

Knowing that he's knowledgeable about cars, I've tried comparing clock rate to the RPM of an engine, and stating that just because an engine screams at 50,000 RPM doesn't make it more powerful than a 5,000 RPM engine. I've also used the cylinders in an
engine as a comparison to the GPU cores. 1 cylinders vs 16 cylinders in raw performance.

But that didn't work.


Or, I could let him learn it the hard way and post the benchmark results of running some games' graphics on the P4.

Crysis' lowest settings at 800x600:






Here's the link to the source of the photos: http://www.istartedsomething.com/20081126/direct3d-warp10-to-enable-you-to-play-dx10-crysis-using-software-renderer-only-albeit-slowly/

I'd tell him he is correct and assist him in building a Pentium 4 windows 7 machine. when it's all said and done i'd compare it with modern machine. Hell i'd putt SSDs in both machines before i did a cold boot comparison.
Alienware M17x-R4
(18 items)
 
Core 2 Haf
(16 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-3920XM GTX980M G.SKILL Ripjaws 32GB Model F3-1866C10Q-32GRSL Samsung SSD 850 EVO mSATA 1TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
WD Blue 5400 RPM 1TB ODD Conversion w/ White Label 2TB Empty / Free Bay Converted External USB 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
M14x R2 10 CFM CPU fan Liquid Metal Pro Windows 10 /w Telemetry Block  1080p 120Hz eDP 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
Sony FW900 @ 2304 x 1440 @ 80hz Saitek Eclipse I Dell 330 Watt Brick Logitech G500s 
OtherOther
Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 w/ BT iGPU disable / bypass 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C2Q Q9550 ASUS P5E3 Deluxe Wifi-AP EVGA GTX 770 4GB Classified Kingston HyperX DDR3 KHX1600C9D3K2/8G 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
PNY 1333 55gb, 320Gb, 500GB, 1TB Corsair H80 Win 7 Ultimate 64bit 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Lubuntu 16.04 x64 Dual 1600x1200 Dell m993s @ 70hz TX750 Haf 912 
  hide details  
Reply
Alienware M17x-R4
(18 items)
 
Core 2 Haf
(16 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-3920XM GTX980M G.SKILL Ripjaws 32GB Model F3-1866C10Q-32GRSL Samsung SSD 850 EVO mSATA 1TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
WD Blue 5400 RPM 1TB ODD Conversion w/ White Label 2TB Empty / Free Bay Converted External USB 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
M14x R2 10 CFM CPU fan Liquid Metal Pro Windows 10 /w Telemetry Block  1080p 120Hz eDP 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
Sony FW900 @ 2304 x 1440 @ 80hz Saitek Eclipse I Dell 330 Watt Brick Logitech G500s 
OtherOther
Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 w/ BT iGPU disable / bypass 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C2Q Q9550 ASUS P5E3 Deluxe Wifi-AP EVGA GTX 770 4GB Classified Kingston HyperX DDR3 KHX1600C9D3K2/8G 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
PNY 1333 55gb, 320Gb, 500GB, 1TB Corsair H80 Win 7 Ultimate 64bit 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Lubuntu 16.04 x64 Dual 1600x1200 Dell m993s @ 70hz TX750 Haf 912 
  hide details  
Reply
post #78 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

Update:

Good news: He got the 1.5 GHz P4 machine running, with the GPU disabled I think. He didn't explain much about how he got WARP10 to work.

Bad news: Metro 2033 won't boot

...

A thought about the problem with Metro 2033 - It is really a directx 10 / 11 game (it has lots of directx 11 features). Since WARP10 is specifically for directx 10, it may not know what to do when faced with dx 11 options. Just a thought. The newer version of warp looks like it supports dx 11 features though.
Livingroom rig
(9 items)
 
Retro!
(16 items)
 
DIY Laptop
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-3570K @4.3GHz ASRock Z77 Extreme4-M Radeon HD 7970 GHz 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
Intel 520 SSD 240GB Bluray / DVD combo Win 7 Home 64 Seasonic 550W modular 
Case
NZXT Vulcan 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Athlon 64 FX-55 Clawhammer Or Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester Asus A8N32 - SLI ATI Radeon X850 XT PE 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
Or MSI GeForce 210 4 x 1GB Corsair XMS 500MHz OCz Agility 2 LITE-ON DVD 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Antec Kuhler 920 Win 7 Home Premium OEM Antec High Current Pro NZXT Phantom 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i5-3360M @2.8-3.5GHz nVidia GT 650M @1GHz 2x4GB G.Skill 1600MHz Crucial M4 SSD 128GB 
OSMonitorCase
Ubuntu 12.04 11.6in, 1366x768 Clevo W110ER 
  hide details  
Reply
Livingroom rig
(9 items)
 
Retro!
(16 items)
 
DIY Laptop
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-3570K @4.3GHz ASRock Z77 Extreme4-M Radeon HD 7970 GHz 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
Intel 520 SSD 240GB Bluray / DVD combo Win 7 Home 64 Seasonic 550W modular 
Case
NZXT Vulcan 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Athlon 64 FX-55 Clawhammer Or Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester Asus A8N32 - SLI ATI Radeon X850 XT PE 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
Or MSI GeForce 210 4 x 1GB Corsair XMS 500MHz OCz Agility 2 LITE-ON DVD 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Antec Kuhler 920 Win 7 Home Premium OEM Antec High Current Pro NZXT Phantom 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i5-3360M @2.8-3.5GHz nVidia GT 650M @1GHz 2x4GB G.Skill 1600MHz Crucial M4 SSD 128GB 
OSMonitorCase
Ubuntu 12.04 11.6in, 1366x768 Clevo W110ER 
  hide details  
Reply
post #79 of 120
This is just ridiculous...let the guy have his p4 rig. I have one with an ssd and it's plenty fast for a basic browsing and old mmo gaming machine xD
post #80 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

I don't think he is only dumb at computers it mostly reflects him being dumb at everything biggrin.gif and the refusal to believe

That is your problem right there...

"You can't fix stupid" - Tater Salad
X79
(15 items)
 
First build ever
(10 items)
 
LGA 775
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3820 @4.3ghz stock volts Asus P9X79 Deluxe Sapphire Xtreme 5830 Crossfire @ 950/1200 16gb G Skill Sniper 2133mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Vertex 2 + 1TB WD Caviar Blue (Asus SSD Cac... Lite On DVD RW Noctua NH-D14 SE 2011 Windows 7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Hannspree HF237 Razer Black Widow Ultimate Rosewill Xtreme 950w Antec P280  
MouseMouse PadAudio
R.A.T. 7 Ripper XXL Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 (With onboard) 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon II X4 635 @ 3.5 on 1.34v GIGABYTE GA-890GPA-UD3H ATI Radeon HD 5770  12gb DDR3 (HyperX & Patriot) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
500gb WD Caviar Blue Lite On 24x Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Pro 64 
PowerCase
Antec Neo Eco 400w NZXT Gamma 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
e5400 @ 3.6ghz EVGA nForce 750i SLI Galaxy GT240 512mb GDDR5 4gb of g skill DDR2 800 @ 867mhz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
WD Blue 500gb Cooler Master Hyper N520 W7 Pro 64 bit Antec Neo Eco 400w 
Case
Lancool (Lian Li) K7 
  hide details  
Reply
X79
(15 items)
 
First build ever
(10 items)
 
LGA 775
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3820 @4.3ghz stock volts Asus P9X79 Deluxe Sapphire Xtreme 5830 Crossfire @ 950/1200 16gb G Skill Sniper 2133mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Vertex 2 + 1TB WD Caviar Blue (Asus SSD Cac... Lite On DVD RW Noctua NH-D14 SE 2011 Windows 7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Hannspree HF237 Razer Black Widow Ultimate Rosewill Xtreme 950w Antec P280  
MouseMouse PadAudio
R.A.T. 7 Ripper XXL Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 (With onboard) 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon II X4 635 @ 3.5 on 1.34v GIGABYTE GA-890GPA-UD3H ATI Radeon HD 5770  12gb DDR3 (HyperX & Patriot) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
500gb WD Caviar Blue Lite On 24x Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Pro 64 
PowerCase
Antec Neo Eco 400w NZXT Gamma 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
e5400 @ 3.6ghz EVGA nForce 750i SLI Galaxy GT240 512mb GDDR5 4gb of g skill DDR2 800 @ 867mhz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
WD Blue 500gb Cooler Master Hyper N520 W7 Pro 64 bit Antec Neo Eco 400w 
Case
Lancool (Lian Li) K7 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Processor Discussions
Overclock.net › Forums › General Hardware › General Processor Discussions › How to explain to a friend that the Mhz Myth, is a myth?