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post #11 of 37
Technically... you can cool all at once if you had an APU. smile.gif He he... just thought I'd give you something laugh about.
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post #12 of 37
Now here is why thin rads perform better at low speeds. There are two reasons: air pressure drop and air useability.

Air pressure drop: as I explained earlier, at slow speeds, the fans have trouble pushing the air through the thick rads but they have no problems doing the job on a slimmer rad. And the amount of air moved matters more than anything else for optimal performance. At slow speeds, the fans just don't move enough air through the thick rads.

Air useability: as the are travels down the rad, it gradually warm up as it absorbs heat from the rad. The more it moves down the fins, the hotter it gets. And as it gets warmer, it looses it's ability to absorb more heat. The air becomes saturated with heat. So at slow speeds, not only will there be less air pushed through the thicker rads, but this air becomes virtually saturated by the time it's half way throught the rad.

So if you want to have a silent rig with fans running below 1200 rpm, get thin rads, they will cool better than thick ones. Thick rads only shine in performance at faster speeds.
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post #13 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

Now here is why thin rads perform better at low speeds. There are two reasons: air pressure drop and air useability.

Air pressure drop: as I explained earlier, at slow speeds, the fans have trouble pushing the air through the thick rads but they have no problems doing the job on a slimmer rad. And the amount of air moved matters more than anything else for optimal performance. At slow speeds, the fans just don't move enough air through the thick rads.

Air useability: as the are travels down the rad, it gradually warm up as it absorbs heat from the rad. The more it moves down the fins, the hotter it gets. And as it gets warmer, it looses it's ability to absorb more heat. The air becomes saturated with heat. So at slow speeds, not only will there be less air pushed through the thicker rads, but this air becomes virtually saturated by the time it's half way throught the rad.

So if you want to have a silent rig with fans running below 1200 rpm, get thin rads, they will cool better than thick ones. Thick rads only shine in performance at faster speeds.

I'm not sure if you're trying to help the OP, or you are totally confused

You need to research how surface area and heat dissipation work.
post #14 of 37
If you haven't looked at it already, I recommend checking the H220 kit from swiftech. Here's the review at Martin's:

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/

Plus you can easily add an additional radiator + gpu block.
post #15 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaHertz View Post

You need to research how surface area and heat dissipation work.
I have an engineering background, I have built a half dozen water cooled computers, and I backed up what I wrote with solid science and testing.

You should explain to me, and to OP which part of my post is wrong, and why.
You could also play with your pump speed and see if you can detect any temp changes.

Did you check out the links I provided?
Are you familiar with Martin's Liquid Labs?
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post #16 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

I have an engineering background, I have built a half dozen water cooled computers, and I backed up what I wrote with solid science and testing.

You should explain to me, and to OP which part of my post is wrong, and why.
You could also play with your pump speed and see if you can detect any temp changes.

Did you check out the links I provided?
Are you familiar with Martin's Liquid Labs?

I'm not questioning your background, I'm questioning your information. I think you are letting your frustration get in the way of your judgement.

Once again, your post does not mention anything about surface area or heat dissipation.

Maybe you should call XSPC and tell them that their engineering methods are wrong, why? Because they sell thin radiators with 2000rpm+ fans and thick radiators with 1600rpm- fans.

It is common sense that a radiator with more surface area will dissipate more heat. So I ask, why would the manufacturer of these kits sell slower rpm fans? Yes, I know why! Since there is more surface area, and more room to dissipate heat, you do not need so much airflow.

I am trying to help the OP, and if you honestly suggested a 350L/ph pump for a CPU, GPU, and Chipset, I'm sorry but I can't take any information you give seriously.

"The idea that thicker will cool better is just wrong."
Twisting words is also just wrong, the only idea given was that thicker rads will dissipate more heat due to more surface area

"And about that 350 l/hr figure. Manufacturer claims don't mean anything, toss that into the propaganda bin. And what really matters is not flow, what matters more is pressure, and the review I posted above explains that pretty well."
Marketing has nothing to do with this. False advertising is illegal, companies dont sell 200L/hr and advertise 350L/hr nor do they sell 350L/hr and advertise 200L/hr

Since most people don't shop for pressure, it's not a good point to focus in, very few people will spend $150-300 alone on the pump.

None of this changes the fact that 350L/hr is not sufficient enough for cooling a CPU,GPU, and Chipset.
Edited by MegaHertz - 3/4/13 at 11:05pm
post #17 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaHertz View Post

"And about that 350 l/hr figure. Manufacturer claims don't mean anything, toss that into the propaganda bin. And what really matters is not flow, what matters more is pressure, and the review I posted above explains that pretty well."
Marketing has nothing to do with this. False advertising is illegal, companies dont sell 200L/hr and advertise 350L/hr nor do they sell 350L/hr and advertise 200L/hr

Since most people don't shop for pressure, it's not a good point to focus in, very few people will spend $150-300 alone on the pump.

None of this changes the fact that 350L/hr is not sufficient enough for cooling a CPU,GPU, and Chipset.Past a certain point the higer flow rate gains are irrelevant and what matters is the pressure, which will allow the loop to retain that flow more consistently throughout the entire loop.
In practice, past a certain point the gains achieved through higher flow are irrelevant. What matter is the higher pressure, which will allow the loop to retain the volume flow and pressure more constant throughout the entire loop.

Head loss
Edited by Fulvin - 3/4/13 at 11:41pm
post #18 of 37
OP the one thing I would want to know is if you wanted to go with the WC route how much were you looking to spend?
post #19 of 37
What about fin density!?
post #20 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaHertz View Post

I'm not questioning your background, I'm questioning your information. I think you are letting your frustration get in the way of your judgement.

Once again, your post does not mention anything about surface area or heat dissipation.

Maybe you should call XSPC and tell them that their engineering methods are wrong, why? Because they sell thin radiators with 2000rpm+ fans and thick radiators with 1600rpm- fans.

It is common sense that a radiator with more surface area will dissipate more heat. So I ask, why would the manufacturer of these kits sell slower rpm fans? Yes, I know why! Since there is more surface area, and more room to dissipate heat, you do not need so much airflow.

I am trying to help the OP, and if you honestly suggested a 350L/ph pump for a CPU, GPU, and Chipset, I'm sorry but I can't take any information you give seriously.

"The idea that thicker will cool better is just wrong."
Twisting words is also just wrong, the only idea given was that thicker rads will dissipate more heat due to more surface area

"And about that 350 l/hr figure. Manufacturer claims don't mean anything, toss that into the propaganda bin. And what really matters is not flow, what matters more is pressure, and the review I posted above explains that pretty well."
Marketing has nothing to do with this. False advertising is illegal, companies dont sell 200L/hr and advertise 350L/hr nor do they sell 350L/hr and advertise 200L/hr

Since most people don't shop for pressure, it's not a good point to focus in, very few people will spend $150-300 alone on the pump.

None of this changes the fact that 350L/hr is not sufficient enough for cooling a CPU,GPU, and Chipset.

Oh dear, oh dear.

The XSPC radiators are sold with different fans because the thin rads are high fin density that works best with high fan speeds, the thick rads are low FPI and are able to work well with lower speed fans.
It has nothing to do with the thickness.

The MCP355 is easily capable of providing sufficient flow to several components ... 3 waterblocks and 2 rads would be a doddle. It is all about the pressure they supply ... the flow rate they provide into free air is completely irrelevent. The 355 is much more capable than the X20 pump you referred to for example.

You have gotten hold of some seriously misguided information and assumptions. That's fine, believe what you want, but don't be telling better informed people who are trying to help that they are not.

Before policing the information and advice provided by others I would recommend doing a lot more reading and picking up more experience.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 3/5/13 at 2:14am
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