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Swiftech H220/H320/H220X/H240X/H140X and CM Glacer 240L/360L Owners' Club - Page 170

post #1691 of 20731
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechSilver13 View Post

I wasnt going to reinstall my H220, my new unit has been sitting on the counter since Monday, but tonight I decided to give it a go. I forgot how great the temps are on this for overclocking. Here is a pic on how I installed it. Extremely happy with my Swiftech H220!!


Nice titans, you should put them in the loop with some of those EK full cover blocks biggrin.gif probably could fit at least another 220 rad down on the bottom of the case biggrin.gif
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post #1692 of 20731
Wizard, I think you're overlooking something. Three failures is reason to turn the finger around and start troubleshooting your hardware and looking for other options/answers. It is possible one pump was bad, and committed or had faulty hardware on your end the other two times and overlooked it due the assumption it was just another bad H220 pump.

P.S. Power steering pumps wine usually due to a lack of fluid, they leak fluid if the bearings/seals are bad. More than likely the first was leaking and the mechanic put a new pump on but did not bleed the pump properly and that is why it still wines. As far as gas mileage goes, well that is in your head. A locked pump is the only thing that would create any real drag on the motor and even then it would just snap the belt. To many factors could cause bad gas mileage, I.E. weather, change in driving, route, traffic, different gas, other faulty parts.

As far as the mechanic goes, a quick quote is one thing, but the guy probably is covered up in work and would rather turn out the guaranteed pay check in front of him rather than phone back a maybe. Not necessarily professional, but I ve been on both sides and when you are holding up a transmission, axle, or whatever and people are calling for nit picky thing it doesn't help you get the job in front of you done and people get more pissy when they have nothing to drive.
Edited by dsmwookie - 4/19/13 at 6:45am
post #1693 of 20731
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmwookie View Post

Wizard, I think you're overlooking something. Three failures is reason to turn the finger around and start troubleshooting your hardware and looking for other options/answers. It is possible one pump was bad, and committed or had faulty hardware on your end the other two times and overlooked it due the assumption it was just another bad H220 pump.

P.S. Power steering pumps wine usually due to a lack of fluid, they leak fluid if the bearings/seals are bad. More than likely the first was leaking and the mechanic put a new pump on but did not bleed the pump properly and that is why it still wines. As far as gas mileage goes, well that is in your head. A locked pump is the only thing that would create any real drag on the motor and even then it would just snap the belt. To many factors could cause bad gas mileage, I.E. weather, change in driving, route, traffic, different gas, other faulty parts.

As far as the mechanic goes, a quick quote is one thing, but the guy probably is covered up in work and would rather turn out the guaranteed pay check in front of him rather than phone back a maybe. Not necessarily professional, but I ve been on both sides and when you are holding up a transmission, axle, or whatever and people are calling for nit picky thing it doesn't help you get the job in front of you done and people get more pissy when they have nothing to drive.

Pump 1 - installed stock out of the box, no modifications. Plugged directly into the CPU fan headder. Died after about 72 hours.
Pump 2 - Never powered on straight out of the box. I tested it with 2 power supplies and made sure that the ports were good by plugging in fans. Shook it, tapped it, screamed at it.
Pump 3 - Modified to add my videocard, plugged straight into the motherboard CPU headder. Flushed/tested twice (at Swiftech and my home, I left the loop running on my desk for 2 days and nights. Installed in my system and ran quiet as a mouse for a week until screaming like a banshee one evening from the moment I powered up my computer.

You tell me what have I over looked? The only thing I can think of is possible faulty power from the headder, but when I plug in a fan and watch it, the RPMs never fluxuiate. Even if there are minor fluxuations, all of the other fans that I have had plugged into have never had problems. Why should the h220 pump be any different? Even then, why would fluxuiating power cause the pump to start screaming even at different speeds, after it had remained completely silent for a week?

Oh, and my power steering pump? I ran it for 500 miles at the direction of my mechanic to work all of the bubbles out. It not only go louder but we flushed new fluid into it for an hour and it didnt make any difference. Thats when I decided to research the internet for ford ranger pumps (I actually have a mazda b3000 - ford clone) and found that it's a crap shoot on a replacement pump, maybe it's noisy, maybe it's not.

My mechanic? Ive been taking both of my vehicles to him for over a year now. He has made lots of money from me. He is just turning down an opportunity to make a guaranteed pay check from me.

EDIT: I'm really not trying to be combative. I welcome anyone that has ANY idea of what the problem could be, my fault or not.
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post #1694 of 20731
I can understand wizard's frustration (3 is enough to drive anyone over the edge). I wonder if it isn't something with the CPU header feeding the pump though? The unit is setup to run off the 8 way pwm splitter which draws power directly from the PSU through the molex connector and this likely help retain closer to 12v. Running off a motherboar header at 6w could introduce some voltage drop due to resistance in the motherboard traces leaving lower voltage being fed to the pump.

I wouldn't think this would matter but I had my milling machine motor in my garage fry due to resistance in an extension cord that was too small. I ended up frying the running capacitor in the motor because of that small extension cord. I replaced my cheap extension cord with a larger heavy gauge cord and bypassed the smaller wire circuit I was plugging into and have no longer had issues with it. Lesson learned for me was to pay attention to power feeds, just because something works does NOT mean it's good power.

Anyhow, not sure the same thing applies to DC motor (I know very little about electrical motors) but it makes me wonder if plugging direct to the motherboard header is not a good idea. Kit is meant to power the pump through the PWM splitter. Seems like the issues I've heard in this thread seem to correlate to people plugging the pump directly into the MB rather than using the PWM splitter which draws power from the PSU.

6w is a pretty large load for a motherboard fan header. Most typical cpu fans are probably drawing no more than 2W so drawing 6w is higher than typical.

I would suggest using the kit PWM splitter to pull power from the power supply. This way you don't stress the motherboard and you can't accidentally feed the pump lower voltage or current limited voltage or ? If you use the provided 8 way splitter, you guarantee feeding the pump straight quality PSU regulated 12V power. Then the ONLY thing coming from the MB is the PWM signal.

Speculation, but I would NOT advise running the pump plugged directly to the MB, I would use the splitter every time. It might work, but why risk it?
Edited by Martinm210 - 4/19/13 at 12:33pm
    
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post #1695 of 20731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post

The unit is setup to run off the 8 way pwm splitter which draws power directly from the PSU through the molex connector and this likely help retain closer to 12v.

I would suggest using the kit PWM splitter to pull power from the power supply.

Gabe stated in his video, demoing the h220 to Linus tech tips that the pump could be plugged either into the pwm splitter OR the motherboard header and the onboard throttling could be used. Bryan also said that people have been reporting that Speedfan has been working fine to control the pump, as it did for me for a week.
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post #1696 of 20731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post

I can understand wizard's frustration (3 is enough to drive anyone over the edge). I wonder if it isn't something with the CPU header feeding the pump though? The unit is setup to run off the 8 way pwm splitter which draws power directly from the PSU through the molex connector and this likely help retain closer to 12v. Running off a motherboar header at 6w could introduce some voltage drop due to resistance in the motherboard traces leaving lower voltage being fed to the pump.

I wouldn't think this would matter but I had my milling machine motor in my garage fry due to resistance in an extension cord that was too small. I ended up frying the running capacitor in the motor because of that small extension cord. I replaced my cheap extension cord with a larger heavy gauge cord and bypassed the smaller wire circuit I was plugging into and have no longer had issues with it. Lesson learned for me was to pay attention to power feeds, just because something works does mean it's good.

Anyhow, not sure the same thing applies to DC motor (I know very little about electrical motors) but it makes me wonder if plugging direct to the motherboard header is not a good idea. Kit is meant to power the pump through the PWM splitter. Seems like the issues I've heard in this thread seem to correlate to people plugging the pump directly into the MB rather than using the PWM splitter which draws power from the PSU.

6w is a pretty large load for a motherboard fan header. Most typical cpu fans are probably drawing no more than 2W so drawing 6w is higher than typical.

I would suggest using the kit PWM splitter to pull power from the power supply.

Adding to this, if the ASUS board is as much of a PITA as I have found them, it is possible your 4pin header isn't actually PWM either, and if that is screwing with the voltage than this could explain the pumps dying on you. It wouldn't even be the first time a board is documented as saying it has PWM headers, and in actuality the 4th pin does nothing and the header just voltage regulates.

As I said before, It just doesn't fit that you get 3 in a row that go bad. I really do sympathize with your issue, but there is something else wrong here.. that is my gut feeling. Take a look at the documentation of your board, contact asus (ugh, i know i'm sorry but bug them long enough and you might get a worthwhile answer... maybe) find out if the header has a max wattage draw through it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardonthejob View Post

Gabe stated in his video, demoing the h220 to Linus tech tips that the pump could be plugged either into the pwm splitter OR the motherboard header and the onboard throttling could be used. Bryan also said that people have been reporting that Speedfan has been working fine to control the pump, as it did for me for a week.

Yes, it can be. That does not mean YOUR current hardware can work with it. It doesn't guarantee you wont be creating a problem by drawing too much power through a circuit which is supposed to be very light. Putting computer systems together has become much easier than it used to be, but the old principles still remain once you get passed the basics. Your electronics need to be pulling the right amount of power at the right voltages for the circuits or behavior and life expectancy become variable.
Edited by Avonosac - 4/19/13 at 8:29am
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post #1697 of 20731
Im not sure where the idea that I have an Asus motherboard came around. I have an MSI NF980-G65. The manual states (voice dictated to my phone)

The fan power connectors support system cooling fan with 12 volt. When connecting the wire to the connectors always know that the red wire is the positive and should be connected to the 12 Volt; the black wire is ground and should be connected to ground if the mainboard has a system Hardware Monitor chipset on board you must use a specially designed fan with speed sensor to take advantage of the CPU fan control.

Regardless,it should not matter what type of throttIing my mobo uses. The pump was marked as a widely universal device. To overlook something so basic in the design phase would be ludicrous.
Edited by WizardontheJob - 4/19/13 at 9:11am
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post #1698 of 20731
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardonthejob View Post

Pump 1 - installed stock out of the box, no modifications. Plugged directly into the CPU fan headder. Died after about 72 hours.
Pump 2 - Never powered on straight out of the box. I tested it with 2 power supplies and made sure that the ports were good by plugging in fans. Shook it, tapped it, screamed at it.
Pump 3 - Modified to add my videocard, plugged straight into the motherboard CPU headder. Flushed/tested twice (at Swiftech and my home, I left the loop running on my desk for 2 days and nights. Installed in my system and ran quiet as a mouse for a week until screaming like a banshee one evening from the moment I powered up my computer.

You tell me what have I over looked? The only thing I can think of is possible faulty power from the headder, but when I plug in a fan and watch it, the RPMs never fluxuiate. Even if there are minor fluxuations, all of the other fans that I have had plugged into have never had problems. Why should the h220 pump be any different? Even then, why would fluxuiating power cause the pump to start screaming even at different speeds, after it had remained completely silent for a week?

Oh, and my power steering pump? I ran it for 500 miles at the direction of my mechanic to work all of the bubbles out. It not only go louder but we flushed new fluid into it for an hour and it didnt make any difference. Thats when I decided to research the internet for ford ranger pumps (I actually have a mazda b3000 - ford clone) and found that it's a crap shoot on a replacement pump, maybe it's noisy, maybe it's not.

My mechanic? Ive been taking both of my vehicles to him for over a year now. He has made lots of money from me. He is just turning down an opportunity to make a guaranteed pay check from me.

EDIT: I'm really not trying to be combative. I welcome anyone that has ANY idea of what the problem could be, my fault or not.

As soon as Stephen gets in I'm going to see what we can do about your issue. This third kit of yours was thoroughly tested before it was sent to you. I know this because I personally tested it. I ran it at various PWM settings and flushed it twice before sending it to you. To me this just doesn't make any sense. I'm not an engineer though.
post #1699 of 20731
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardonthejob View Post

Im not sure where the idea that I have an Asus motherboard came around. I have an MSI NF980-G65. The manual states

Regardless,it should not matter what type of throttIing my mobo uses. The pump was marked as a widely universal device. To overlook something so basic in the design phase would be ludicrous.

Someone said it, I figured it was verified.

But, sorry there you are 100% incorrect. Swiftech explicitly stated many times there would be adverse effects to using voltage regulation on the motor. They were very emphatic about it, I understand your frustration but, no in this case you are wrong. They did not over look it, they made a true PWM device, and it is, what you are talking about is other companies incorrectly marketing voltage regulation as PWM. That is not Swiftechs fault, if that happens to be the case.

Best I have seen in the manual for your motherboard is a statement saying the CPU header supports fan control. It doesn't suggest or state PWM, and there aren't too many other sources I've been able to find quickly. I'd lean towards voltage regulation on the header, which is bad for the H220.
Edited by Avonosac - 4/19/13 at 9:14am
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Nightrider
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post #1700 of 20731
my H220 been working perfect for a couple weeks now. I am using the splitter for the pump and fans and use speedfan to control the temps. everything been working great so far.
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