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Swiftech H220/H320/H220X/H240X/H140X and CM Glacer 240L/360L Owners' Club - Page 195

post #1941 of 20221
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingclip View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Just trying to help, but please read the entire post before getting out your sharpest pens:rolleyes: (yes, it’s a few paragraphs but the point comes out in the first few sentences):

The following isn't my “idea” it’s just the laws of physics and thermal hydraulics:

It's very simple; your goal should be to cool the liquid that is going through the radiator of whatever system you are using, to a temperature as low as possible. That will in turn get your CPU to a temperature as cool as possible which is an ‘incidental reaction’. If the temperature you’re pushing or pulling through the radiator is 74°F, (about 23°C), you can be sure that the liquid circulating in the radiator will never be lower than that at best, (and can be actually, quite higher depending on how many ounces of water go through the radiator per minute).

So if you're in an air-conditioned room that is about 74°F as mine is you can expect the liquid to get cooled down to about 80° to 85°F, (26 to 29°C). This would translate to your processor getting down to about 90° F at best, (about 32°C). That’s about what my processor temp is when at rest, (I have an O/C'd CPU at 4.2 GHz for everyday use and when not ‘flight simming’ and it never gets higher than 68/69C when running at 5GHz for hours).

So it goes that if you pull the air from an already hot case that may be 39 or 40°C, (104°F), through the radiator, you cannot expect the liquid to be any cooler than that. In fact, if you did that your processor is going to be much warmer than 40°C obviously.

The radiator in the H220, (or any other water cool system of this kind), works just like the radiator in your car. Most new cars these days have a thermostatically controlled engine radiator fan. When the engine starts getting above whatever the engine thermostat is rated at, the engine fan kicks on and “sucks” the cooler air from outside the vehicle through the radiator cooling the liquid inside the radiator. The engine block gets cooler as a result and that’s an ‘incidental reaction’. NO cars ‘push’ the hot air from the engine compartment through the radiator and then out to the outside air, none.

But your engine block will never get down to the same temperature as the liquid, (antifreeze in this case), but will certainly get cooler than your engine compartment temp. That’s why you should always push or pull cool air through the radiator from the outside of the case environment be it car or computer, (assuming the outside temp is cooler than inside the compartment).

If anyone is certain that they are getting cooler temps when they push the air within their case through the radiator then they have another variable that is affecting their temps and are simply misunderstanding/misinterpreting what those variables are.

Maybe their other fans are fighting each other and causing a very disruptive air flow or maybe your computer is near a window in the room, (as mine is), in which case the heat of the day increases the air temps in that area and you're not running cool enough AC or circulation. But even in that scenario, the temp in the case is likely to be warmer than the air outside of it.

There can be many reasons that are causing that effect but it's impossible for me to know without being there with the computer and checking it myself. There are many places for the air to wind up 'circling' in corners where various components get close to each other. Other places of concern are where you wind up with "dead air", or ‘ebbs’, (places where the air is just circling or isn't being a moved at all and the temp just starts to build up in those points).

Move your case fans or flip them around to push instead of pull or pull instead of push. I have nine fans in only one 120 mm fan is set up to pull air from the case. I believe I don’t have a ‘dead air’ problem because I have 1 200mm fan mounted on the side pulling air into the case. There’s plenty of other places that the warm air in the case can seep out of, (the seams and gaps), and the intake of cool air will create enough pressure to push that warm air out.

But I can guarantee that you will never get cooler temps by pulling the hot air in your case through the radiator if the air outside the case is cooler. It’s a physical impossibility, (if the system doesn’t have its own, self-contained refrigeration source), no matter how anyone wants to argue it.


I've seen manufacturers who make these radiators actually instruct the buyer to pull the hot air from the case through the radiator! The Corsair H100 I presently have had instructions that correctly stated the way the airflow should go when assembling their product. But I’ve also seen companies that supposedly “specialize” in hardware cooling state just the opposite, but hey, it’s their company. Honestly, I can't imagine what some of these other manufacturers are thinking and if you have any doubts just look at the radiator system in your automobile.

Do you really think that the automobile industry would choose to pull the cool air from outside the engine compartment and then through the radiator when that wasn't the best way to do it? Of course not, because they're not trying to cool the engine block. They're trying to cool the liquid.

I hope that I got through to somebody out there and helped them understand this. I've gone into this before in other websites, (a year ago), and all it did was to bring out the ‘keyboard boxers’ lol. So I swore I wouldn't post this attempt to help folks realize what they already know but failed to understand. It’s really a very simple and basic concept, law, theory and to some, a solution:thumb:.

This is different than trying to cool your components in the case. The fans for the radiator are not meant to be thought of in the same way you use the fans in your cases. Just focus on the temperature of the liquid and everything else will happen the way you wanted;).
Rich

a few words? Mostly you are correct, people who care about case temps are often people who are still thinking air cooling before switching over to water cooling. Cooling the loop is the most important thing, after that, decent airflow in the case with at least 1 good exhaust, and you won't have any problems with heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojojj31 View Post

Seems like you'd end up with a bunch of hotspots in the case, particularly in the top front area. Hot air naturally rises, so you want to use that to your advantage. Switch the 120mm bottom fan to intake, and switch the top rad fans to exhaust. I think you'd end up with a much cooler case, and thus lower RAM, Mobo, and HDD temps.

It honestly doesn't matter, if you're putting everything on the loop, the small amounts of heat that will stick in the case should be within operating temps of any device you include in your case.
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post #1942 of 20221
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojojj31 View Post

Seems like you'd end up with a bunch of hotspots in the case, particularly in the top front area. Hot air naturally rises, so you want to use that to your advantage. Switch the 120mm bottom fan to intake, and switch the top rad fans to exhaust. I think you'd end up with a much cooler case, and thus lower RAM, Mobo, and HDD temps.

There again is where many people forget or misunderstand the design goal of the radiator. The radiator's goal is to cool the liquid. If you try to give the radiator two jobs; i.e. cool the liquid and remove hot air from the case, you'll only get less effectiveness in both applications rather than applying 100% of the effectiveness to cooling the liquid in the first place.

Just try it, (the cool air IN through the radiator from outside the radiator), but make sure that your other fans don't lock the airflow up in an important corner somewhere, (adjust as needed). You'll see what the difference is and that'll be based on your outside ambient temp which will almost undoubtedly be cooler than the inside of that case.

Remember, just like "darkness is the absence of light", "cold is the absence of heat". You're not trying to cool off the CPU with the radiator fans, you're trying to cool off the liquid, the CPU temp will follow as an incidental result.

I've got to get back to work, I'm not even supposed to be here:p
Rich
post #1943 of 20221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

a few words? Mostly you are correct, people who care about case temps are often people who are still thinking air cooling before switching over to water cooling. Cooling the loop is the most important thing, after that, decent airflow in the case with at least 1 good exhaust, and you won't have any problems with heat.
It honestly doesn't matter, if you're putting everything on the loop, the small amounts of heat that will stick in the case should be within operating temps of any device you include in your case.

thumb.gif
post #1944 of 20221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementR View Post

The batch that was sold on Friday was from CA, that is where mine shipped from. You should sign up for a trial of shoprunner on newegg. I signed up almost 2 years ago and canceled my subscription before the trial was up. They gave me my first year free after I canceled and I just got another free year because I declined to pay again, woot for free 2 day shipping. My H220 arrived today but it is in my apartments office and they are closed but should be back soon. I can't wait to see the temps on my i5, hope they are low enough to push 4.8GHz @ 1.5v.

I'll look into that, thanks for the info. Bit late for my incoming H220 though, but I'll keep that in mind for next time. wink.gif
post #1945 of 20221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementR View Post

The batch that was sold on Friday was from CA, that is where mine shipped from. You should sign up for a trial of shoprunner on newegg. I signed up almost 2 years ago and canceled my subscription before the trial was up. They gave me my first year free after I canceled and I just got another free year because I declined to pay again, woot for free 2 day shipping. My H220 arrived today but it is in my apartments office and they are closed but should be back soon. I can't wait to see the temps on my i5, hope they are low enough to push 4.8GHz @ 1.5v.

SO True!
I had/have Shoprunner and because they aren't accepted in the places I buy from most of the time, I've decided not to renew. Unlike Amazon Prime, Shoprunner just doesn't cover enough stores or departments. But my subscription is still not ended, (not sure when it does), and I took advantage of the free shipping for that H220 that should be here tomorrow!biggrin.gif
post #1946 of 20221
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojojj31 View Post

Seems like you'd end up with a bunch of hotspots in the case, particularly in the top front area. Hot air naturally rises, so you want to use that to your advantage. Switch the 120mm bottom fan to intake, and switch the top rad fans to exhaust. I think you'd end up with a much cooler case, and thus lower RAM, Mobo, and HDD temps.
Thanks for the feedback! My guess is that I'll have to try it with both setups. The hardest part will be moving the fans around on the rad, so it shouldn't be overly difficult.

I'll be kind enough to post the results here once I'm done. If I can ever find an H220 in stock, that is. (and yes, I missed yesterday's inventory, as well... DOH!)
Edited by paleh0rse14 - 4/24/13 at 1:35pm
post #1947 of 20221
Quote:
Originally Posted by paleh0rse14 View Post

Thanks for the feedback! My guess is that I'll have to try it with both setups. The hardest part will be moving the fans around on the rad, so it shouldn't be overly difficult.

I'll be kind enough to post the results here once I'm done. If I can ever find an H220 in stock, that is. (and yes, I missed yesterday's inventory, as well... DOH!)

Looks like its your lucky second wind man tongue.gif

In-Stock here at Newegg again today, I'll keep checking for everyone smile.gif
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post #1948 of 20221
i say just do what makes you happy thumb.gif
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post #1949 of 20221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azefore View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by paleh0rse14 View Post

Thanks for the feedback! My guess is that I'll have to try it with both setups. The hardest part will be moving the fans around on the rad, so it shouldn't be overly difficult.

I'll be kind enough to post the results here once I'm done. If I can ever find an H220 in stock, that is. (and yes, I missed yesterday's inventory, as well... DOH!)

Looks like its your lucky second wind man tongue.gif

In-Stock here at Newegg again today, I'll keep checking for everyone smile.gif
Got it, THANK YOU! smile.gif

2-day shoprunner shipping for the w1n!
post #1950 of 20221
inside the case temps wont effect mounting with a radbox and I really like the radiator outside the case.koolance radbox and 133 cfm fans added to swiftech h220 room temp is 72 f and my cpu temp is 24c or 75f
Edited by Rabid1 - 4/24/13 at 2:23pm
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