Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [Verge] EU fines Microsoft over $730 million for failing to include browser ballot in Windows 7 SP1
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Verge] EU fines Microsoft over $730 million for failing to include browser ballot in Windows 7 SP1 - Page 12  

post #111 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

Again, this statement absolutely means nothing. EXPLAIN like a person. Reason. counter point. Provide evidence. Simply saying that "I have no understanding" is really just a patronizing remark. STOP!

No, when you go and read the original rulings and cases, then we can discuss. Otherwise I'm not spoon feeding you the correct information.

Otherwise, it's simple. You have no understanding of what happened. When you do, if you see sense, then you'll agree MS were in the wrong and abusing thier position as a market leader to fill their own coffers.
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
post #112 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

How was it fair of Microsoft to abuse their dominant position the market to give advantage to their product that were inferior? It wasn't. Therefore, it's a fair punishment to have to present a choice for users.

How was it fair for IBM to use their dominant position in the market to give advantage to their product that were inferior ... when MICROSOFT got their start?

How about how about then Lotus 1-2-3 was the dominant? Or how about dBase? Or how about Word Perfect? Or how about Yahoo (before Google)? Or how about Netscape? Etc, etc, etc.

Pretty much because of innovation, the "little guy" (be in Microsoft or Google) at the time overcame the giant.

Maybe other companies should learn to buck up, spend some money, and come up with a better mouse trap, and stop running home to "Big Mommy Government" to force their competitor to help them put themselves out of business.
post #113 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purger View Post

Rubbers is right. This whole thing is really just a hangover from times past. It's unfortunate that it has to land now, like this, but it is what it is. Either way, thanks to what happened in the US, we have this.

Though, the US case was a bit different. Web browsers are generally free, downloadable, and have good compatability. The US's problem with MS was that they were bundling premium software with their OS at a price to crush the competition, both on the Office programs front and OS front.

Exactly.

Thanks to this ruling we have open software standards and so on.

Otherwise it'd be like this: Spotify comes out with a really neat app to stream music. MS sees this, gimps performance on their OS, writes their own software for it, and spreads it in an OS update. People use that one since it isn't gimped, MS profit massively.

That's unfair, and anti-competitive. That's exactly what MS were doing. Thanks to the fact that MS can't do what they want, we ahve open standards and a plethora of software to choose from. Thanks to these rulings, no other osftware maker would choose to do this.

















Where were all these naysayers when Intel got massively fined by the EC for the same thing? Surely Intel can do what they want, right? They can bribe who they want and so on, right?
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
post #114 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Actually, there are literally thousands of computer standards and dozens of standards organization.... ATX, TCP/IP, POSIX, Java API, SATA, PCIe, ....

Same goes for the auto industry.

So, I will ask you again. When was the last time you went into a Ford Dealership and told them to put a Chevy 454 engine (or your choice of 11 other companies engines) in a Mustang and they had to comply ... just like the EU told Microsoft to do with the web browser?
post #115 of 300
My thought when seeing this thread, Are you really serious or is this a joke? Must be (HAHAHAHA). Then I went to go eat.
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X3 720 O.C 3.2GHZ GA-MA770T-UD3P EVGA Geforce 275GTX 2GB Corsair, 4 GB MC 
Hard DriveOSPower
Western Digital 320GB, Western Digital 320GB RAID Windows 7 520W Corsair 
  hide details  
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X3 720 O.C 3.2GHZ GA-MA770T-UD3P EVGA Geforce 275GTX 2GB Corsair, 4 GB MC 
Hard DriveOSPower
Western Digital 320GB, Western Digital 320GB RAID Windows 7 520W Corsair 
  hide details  
post #116 of 300
Quote:
How was it fair of Microsoft to abuse their dominant position the market to give advantage to their product that were inferior? It wasn't. Therefore, it's a fair punishment to have to present a choice for users.

BECAUSE IT IS THEIR PRODUCT!

Yes it IS fair.

The user ALWAYS had a choice to use another browser.


[Posted from Google Chrome on Windows 7]
post #117 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

Since you agree that if MS wasn't a monopoly and broke compatibility with other browsers it wouldn't be unlawful, we can agree that it is not innately unlawful to do so. But it has everything to do with being a monopoly. Now while I agree that monopolies are not a good think. I don't agree with the way this was all handled, because it ruins competition. Ideally these other companies should have created their own OS at some point. Then what would have happened is that these OS's would be competing for market share by being more compatible than what we have now....where the more exclusive, the better. Now we have 2 or 3 giants creating a isolated eco systems. But instead we could have had more OS's competing for market share and the loser would be the one that is less compatible with the others because there are so many options
Yup... it was an anti-trust issue.... not that MS was including IE in Windows. If it was just IE vs Netsscape, all would have been well. However, MS used the OS as a weapon in that battle and that is where they got in trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladcrooks View Post

Okay, I E belongs to Microsoft . So its a part of their build. Yes! I am telling myself this because I cannot see what the fuss is all about! biggrin.gif

Its like telling Ford the car manufactures to put a Nissan part on it, or a BMW part and so on.

I use Mozilla, my choice.

Good luck Billy, I know the money side is not going to hurt you, but this fine is morally wrong, and send me a free copy of the next edition of windows for backing you up thumb.gif
Missing the point..... MS is not wrong in having IE in Windows. MS is wrong in keeping other browsers from competing with IE in the late 1990s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

How was it fair for IBM to use their dominant position in the market to give advantage to their product that were inferior ... when MICROSOFT got their start?

How about how about then Lotus 1-2-3 was the dominant? Or how about dBase? Or how about Word Perfect? Or how about Yahoo (before Google)? Or how about Netscape? Etc, etc, etc.

Pretty much because of innovation, the "little guy" (be in Microsoft or Google) at the time overcame the giant.

Maybe other companies should learn to buck up, spend some money, and come up with a better mouse trap, and stop running home to "Big Mommy Government" to force their competitor to help them put themselves out of business.
Please provide more explicit examples.

IBM focus was more on the enterprise. MS focused on consumers. MS won the desktop market which eventually trained people as they moved into business.

Again... build a better mouse trap to compete against other mouse traps is a good thing. However, if you build a better mouse trap..... and the other mouse trap company also happens to own all the mouse trap stores....

Competition is a good thing. Anti-trust is not competition... it is using unfair tactics that basically ignore the merits of products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

BECAUSE IT IS THEIR PRODUCT!

Yes it IS fair.

The user ALWAYS had a choice to use another browser.


[Posted from Google Chrome on Windows 7]
Posted from Google Chrome on Windows 7 because of the original lawsuit. rolleyes.gif

The world today is because of these lawsuits 15 years ago!!!!!!! So stop applying the realities of today to the past.


So to extend your arguement..... was it ok for Intel to threaten Dell that they would stop selling them CPUs if Dell sold AMD CPUs? Intel knowing full well that Dell would not because they could not survive in the short-term through selling just AMD CPUs?
It's their product, they can do anything they like and it's fair, right?
Edited by DuckieHo - 3/6/13 at 9:36am
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
post #118 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

How was it fair for IBM to use their dominant position in the market to give advantage to their product that were inferior ... when MICROSOFT got their start?

How about how about then Lotus 1-2-3 was the dominant? Or how about dBase? Or how about Word Perfect? Or how about Yahoo (before Google)? Or how about Netscape? Etc, etc, etc.

Pretty much because of innovation, the "little guy" (be in Microsoft or Google) at the time overcame the giant.

Maybe other companies should learn to buck up, spend some money, and come up with a better mouse trap, and stop running home to "Big Mommy Government" to force their competitor to help them put themselves out of business.

IBM personal computers ran DOS which is MS..

Netscape completed by releasing the source code and morphing into FireFox

Yahoo is still around and seems to be doing much better after Marissa took over

Lotus 1-2-3 ran on DOS then Windows and was superseded by MS own program "surprise"

But Lotus is now part of big blue so there OK..
 
DD Portable
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 5675C Gigabyte GA-Z97X Gaming 5 XFX RX 480 GTR 32GB Corsair Vengeance 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Evo Western Digital Black RE4 2TB Western Digital Green 2TB bequiet! Silent Wings 2 140mm PWM 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
bequiet! Silent Wings 2 140mm PWM bequiet! Shadow Wings SW1 120mm PWM bequiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 Arch X64 / Gnome and OSX 10.11 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung 590D 4K KBC Poker II be quiet! Straight Power 10 400W bequiet! Silent Base 800 
MouseAudioAudio
Speedlink Omni VI  Sound Blaster Z  Bose Companion 2  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 3427U The Googs HD4000 4GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
32GB Flash / 128GB SanDisk Extreme SD card ChromeOS / Ubuntu 14.04 12" 2560x1700 bad 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
not much  Aluminium  Trackpad it makes noise I think  
  hide details  
 
DD Portable
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 5675C Gigabyte GA-Z97X Gaming 5 XFX RX 480 GTR 32GB Corsair Vengeance 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Evo Western Digital Black RE4 2TB Western Digital Green 2TB bequiet! Silent Wings 2 140mm PWM 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
bequiet! Silent Wings 2 140mm PWM bequiet! Shadow Wings SW1 120mm PWM bequiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 Arch X64 / Gnome and OSX 10.11 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung 590D 4K KBC Poker II be quiet! Straight Power 10 400W bequiet! Silent Base 800 
MouseAudioAudio
Speedlink Omni VI  Sound Blaster Z  Bose Companion 2  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 3427U The Googs HD4000 4GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
32GB Flash / 128GB SanDisk Extreme SD card ChromeOS / Ubuntu 14.04 12" 2560x1700 bad 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
not much  Aluminium  Trackpad it makes noise I think  
  hide details  
post #119 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Exactly.

Thanks to this ruling we have open software standards and so on.

Otherwise it'd be like this: Spotify comes out with a really neat app to stream music. MS sees this, gimps performance on their OS, writes their own software for it, and spreads it in an OS update. People use that one since it isn't gimped, MS profit massively.

That's unfair, and anti-competitive. That's exactly what MS were doing. Thanks to the fact that MS can't do what they want, we ahve open standards and a plethora of software to choose from. Thanks to these rulings, no other osftware maker would choose to do this.

Where were all these naysayers when Intel got massively fined by the EC for the same thing? Surely Intel can do what they want, right? They can bribe who they want and so on, right?

But somehow you think MS owes it to Spotify to run on Windows. Like MS has to let every program in the world run on windows. You're dang right I would provide proprietary options on my own os if other programs were popular. Dang right! Should Joe Shmoe, who created a cup holders for Ford F150, should be allowed to sue Ford for building a new model with cup holders? NO! Joe Shmoe's company only exists because Ford First created the F150. And somehow Joe Shmoe now has say as to what Ford can produce? NO.

Somehow these third party software companies have a right to dictate what runs on software that doesn't belong to them????
Home PC
(12 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 - 4770k MSI Z87 Mpower Max AMD R9 290x G.Skill Trident X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate Desktop HDD 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM Seagate Desktop HDD 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer NZXT Kraken x60 
MonitorPower
Asus PB278Q 27.0" Monitor Rosewill Capstone 750 modular 
  hide details  
Home PC
(12 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 - 4770k MSI Z87 Mpower Max AMD R9 290x G.Skill Trident X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate Desktop HDD 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM Seagate Desktop HDD 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer NZXT Kraken x60 
MonitorPower
Asus PB278Q 27.0" Monitor Rosewill Capstone 750 modular 
  hide details  
post #120 of 300
How is this even relevant today?
I understand this is an old case but it just seems ignorant to pursue it now.....
it's really not that hard for a person to download another browser, Even if they need to use IE to do so.

Best option for MS is to just count it as a loss, pay the fine and go about as usual.
Main Rig
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
R7 1800x ASUS Prime 370 Pro RX 480 Corsair Dominator 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 850 Pro  None Windows 10 Pro HP w19e: 1440x900 | Sony KDL40S-5100 1920x1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CMStorm Quick Fire. CM 1050w  Cooler Master Cosmos II Roccat Kone XTD (Optical) 
  hide details  
Main Rig
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
R7 1800x ASUS Prime 370 Pro RX 480 Corsair Dominator 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 850 Pro  None Windows 10 Pro HP w19e: 1440x900 | Sony KDL40S-5100 1920x1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CMStorm Quick Fire. CM 1050w  Cooler Master Cosmos II Roccat Kone XTD (Optical) 
  hide details  
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Software News
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [Verge] EU fines Microsoft over $730 million for failing to include browser ballot in Windows 7 SP1