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[Verge] EU fines Microsoft over $730 million for failing to include browser ballot in Windows 7 SP1 - Page 14  

post #131 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

Yet you dont explain why?

It's rather obvious.
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post #132 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

MS owes it to all companies to let every program to run on Windows unless Microsoft has a justified reason not to (i.e. malware). This openness has lead to Window's original adoption. MS can add rules like certificate signing to increase protection but they can arbitary reject a program just because it competes again one of their other applications.

Note, the concept of the walled gardened or curated museum did not exist in Windows. Windows 8 does add the app store but programs are NOT required to be installed through it.

Ok...so I think this is where we disagree. I dont think MS has any legal obligation to allow any program to run on Windows. If so, I would think Apple wold too. In fact I believe people prefer Windows over OSX because software runs on one over the other. But there is no legal obligation for Apple of MS to allow these programs to run on these systems. Instead MS and Apple allow them to run because it makes them money.
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post #133 of 300
My PS3 doesn't play 360 games. I think Sony should be fined.
    
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post #134 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

Ok...so I think this is where we disagree. I dont think MS has any legal obligation to allow any program to run on Windows. If so, I would think Apple wold too. In fact I believe people prefer Windows over OSX because software runs on one over the other. But there is no legal obligation for Apple of MS to allow these programs to run on these systems. Instead MS and Apple allow them to run because it makes them money.

What you think and what happens actually are two totally different things.
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post #135 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

The difference between apple and microsoft was market share at the time when microsoft agreed to include other browsers. They basically had a monopoly, could be argued now as well but it was much much worse back then. And because of the marketshare of windows the actions of MS in the browser 'market' were viewed as anti competitive.

this. why does this even have to be debated. having over 90% of the marketplace is functionally a monopoly and monopolies are ultimately bad for the free market and competition. if you think this lawsuit is silly and nitpicky, consider how difficult it would have been to include other browsers for ms?
post #136 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

What you think and what happens actually are two totally different things.

Yes, that is why we are talking about it. That is why there are court cases everyday regarding previous court cases. It's part of life. In fact many laws come from previous court rulings. So just because this case is closed does not in any way mean that it is right.
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post #137 of 300
The worlds governments decided that MS was a monopoly and anti competitive..we elect these people therefore we find MS's practices to be wrong.
 
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post #138 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

I'm not being patronising. I'm just letting you know that it's obvious why car vs software doesn't work.

They aren't the same thing. The analogies are incompatible.
And just because you have a jaded and uninformed view of the case, it doesn't mean you're right.

Remember perception is reality..we all see things in a different manner and through different lenses.."right" is absolutely subjective
 
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post #139 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

Ok...so I think this is where we disagree. I dont think MS has any legal obligation to allow any program to run on Windows. If so, I would think Apple wold too. In fact I believe people prefer Windows over OSX because software runs on one over the other. But there is no legal obligation for Apple of MS to allow these programs to run on these systems. Instead MS and Apple allow them to run because it makes them money.

Yes it is rather silly that MS should have to have to include the install files for a dozen browsers in their install files and give users the option to choose which one to install and in its self there is no legal reason to require it.

The deal is all because the court case in the past. It doesn't matter what is morally right or common sense right. If I agreed in a court settlement to let you come into my house and raid my fridge when ever you wanted...I'd have to let you do it. MS agreed to this crazy deal...so they have to do it. (well actually there are laws protecting my home, but you get the idea)

I was thinking the whole Netscape crud was under bridge, but apparently there was some back wash. And yes it was very good that it happened in the past. If it hadn't, the only browser on a windows system would be IE...among countless other protocol and API standards that wouldn't not exist as they do and who knows where MS would have stopped. I just think it is dumb to bring it up now...like I said, it is probably just some government official wanting the money...or else some law firm saw the break in the deal by MS and brought it to light so they could get their cut of the $730 million.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 3/6/13 at 10:13am
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post #140 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

MS owes it to all companies to let every program to run on Windows unless Microsoft has a justified reason not to (i.e. malware). This openness has lead to Window's original adoption. MS can add rules like certificate signing to increase protection but they can arbitary reject a program just because it competes again one of their other applications.

So exactly what browser doesn't Microsoft allow to be run on Windows? Oh yeah, there isn't one.

The crux of the whole argument is just how much Microsoft "owes" other companies (which is, in my opinion, nothing) and their web browsers to be FORCED to be installed on their OS right out of the box ... and the OEM's and system builders, who get massive price discounts for following Microsoft's rules about installing only Microsoft products on the PC. If the OEM and system builders don't like it, they can buy a copy of Windows at FULL PRICE and install it and put Chrome, Opera, or what ever else they want. But as long as they are getting a MASSIVE PRICE BREAK, they have follow the rules of their contract. If anything, the companies that Microsoft is FORCED to put on THEIR operating systems should have to pay Microsoft for all the "free advertising" and "product placement" that they will get by having their browser being installed on Windows.

As far as the end user having a choice of browsers, THEY DO. They always did, and STILL DO.
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