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[Verge] EU fines Microsoft over $730 million for failing to include browser ballot in Windows 7 SP1 - Page 6  

post #51 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

On a fresh install there are only two ways to get a different browser:

1. Open IE, navigate to their respective page and download.

2. Have a backed up setup.exe for your chosen browser.

Only nerds like us use number 2. The majority of people will only ever use number 1.

And listen to DuckieHo, because he knows much more about practically everything than many people on this website. I, and many others, consider him of great authority when it comes anything on this website. Seriously, there isn't anyone on this website taht can surpass him in his depth of knowledge.

Two points.

1) There is another way to get a web browser without using IE on a fresh install, so you might want to change your "On a fresh install there are only two ways to get a different browser:" comment.
Quote:
Downloading a browser in Windows, without a browser, in 3 steps:

Step 1 – Launch (and configure) Windows Media Player

Throughout the OS, you’ll find references to Windows Media Player. Click one of them. You’ll be welcomed by a wizard that takes a good five minutes to go through, if you don’t choose the Recommended option.

Step 2 – Search for your browser, using the Windows Media Guide

If it isn't already on your screen, open the Windows Media Guide. You can do this by clicking the very large Media Guide button in the lower-left corner of Windows Media Player. In the upper-right corner of the Guide, type your browser of choice into the Search box. Purely for example purposes, cough, I typed “Firefox”.

Step 3 – Click an ad, download your browser

Upon completion of your search, you’ll be presented with some advertising. We’ll use this to our advantage to hop outside the cage we’re in. Pick an ad, click it. If it doesn't take you to the manufacturers site in less than a few clicks, go back and pick a different ad. Eventually you’ll end up at the desired location with the binaries you need trickling down to your desktop.
For those that wish to download Internet Explorer, you can simply type the keyword IE8 or Opera. I’m serious.

2) Don't confuse my disagreeing with Duckie as dismissing Duckies opinion. I respect Duckie very much and you are right, Duckie is one of the most knowledgeable. But having said that, that doesn't mean that Duckies opinion is ALWAYS right. No ones OPINION is always right.
post #52 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

I agree with all this...but at what point can you make a product and not be sued for being exclusive?

You have to read the case.... the issue was not the exclusive product, it was the fact that MS was being anti-competitive by doing things to block others. I posted more information on what MS did wrong above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

2) Don't confuse my disagreeing with Duckie as dismissing Duckies opinion. I respect Duckie very much and you are right, Duckie is one of the most knowledgeable. But having said that, that doesn't mean that Duckies opinion is ALWAYS right. No ones OPINION is always right.

Thanks, I posted above more details about the original case. People are misunderstand the original issue.

The issue was not that MS bundled IE.
This issue was that MS forced others companies to only include IE, pay MS fees, not provide documentation to make it difficult for other software to run in the OS, get ISPs to only support IE, block Java, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AznDud333 View Post

lol "fine" ...more like bailout money
MS broke a contact. It's a fine.
Edited by DuckieHo - 3/6/13 at 6:54am
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post #53 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Two points.

1) There is another way to get a web browser without using IE on a fresh install, so you might want to change your "On a fresh install there are only two ways to get a different browser:" comment.
2) Don't confuse my disagreeing with Duckie as dismissing Duckies opinion. I respect Duckie very much and you are right, Duckie is one of the most knowledgeable. But having said that, that doesn't mean that Duckies opinion is ALWAYS right. No ones OPINION is always right.

It is a very obscure method. I've never heard of it.

And no, you just don't understand what Duckie is saying very well, as your responses are very telling.

MS were blocking others, while pretending they weren't, then fessed up during court cases. They were in the wrong and engaging in anti-competitive practices. As a punishment, they were fined and forced the offer a choice.
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post #54 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

You have to read the case.... the issue was not the exclusive product, it was the fact that MS was being anti-competitive by doing things to block others. I posted more information on what MS did wrong above.
Thanks, I posted above more details about the original case. People are misunderstand the original issue.

The issue was not that MS bundled IE.
This issue was that MS forced others companies to only include IE, pay MS fees, not provide documentation to make it difficult for other software to run in the OS, get ISPs to only support IE, block Java, etc.
MS broke a contact. It's a fine.

Duckie, I understand that, But what I am asking is why is it wrong for MS to break compatibility with competitive software?
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post #55 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

Duckie, I understand that, But what I am asking is why is it wrong for MS to break compatibility with competitive software?
Browser are not a competing against Windows OS.
MS was using their control of the OS to keep other browsers from competing with their browser.

There is a difference there.

Analogy..... If Ford made 90% of all cars in the US and then said "We are installing special chips in Ford approved tires from now on. Other company's tires will no longer work in any of cars." There is no technical reason for this.... we just want to make more money and since we own most of the market, no one can stop us. HA!
Edited by DuckieHo - 3/6/13 at 7:15am
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post #56 of 300
I have no love for Microsoft...but this is just dumb. If Windows must be forced to let the user choose from a list of Browsers to install by default and include the install files in their OS, then so should Apple and every distro of Linux. The operating system needs to install a tested and working browser so that updates can be installed. That is all it is for. If you don't want to use it, the second the install is finished you can install any browser you want. It is just another piece of software. I mean you could say the same thing about how WMP is installed by default over something like VLC. This is probably just over some one's sore feeling from the IE and Netscape wars that caused MS to build IE into their OS in the first place.

If anything should be done...MS should be fined for not giving people the option to have Acrobat Reader installed in Windows 8 by default. They have some sort of app installed by default for reading pdf files but I don't see any option to print them from it even. If I could, I'd have every app disabled by default. There isn't a single one I want to use.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 3/6/13 at 7:13am
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post #57 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

I have no love for Microsoft...but this is just dumb. If Windows must be forced to let the user choose from a list of Browsers to install by default and include the install files in their OS, then so should Apple and every distro of Linux. The operating system needs to install a tested and working browser so that updates can be installed. That is all it is for. If you don't want to use it, the second the install is finished you can install any browser you want. It is just another piece of software. I mean you could say the same thing about how WMP is installed by default over something like VLC. This is probably just over some one sore feeling from the IE and Netscape wars that caused MS to build IE into their OS in the first place.

If anything should be done...MS should be fined for not giving people the option to have Acrobat Reader installed in Windows 8 by default. They have some sort of app installed by default for reading pdf files but I don't see any option to print them from it even. If I could, I'd have every app disabled by default. There isn't a single one I want to use.

Again, another person making the erroneous "why don't other OS's get fined for not giving a choice" argument.

It's not about the choice. The choice is a punishment. Please read Duckie's posts.
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post #58 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

I have no love for Microsoft...but this is just dumb. If Windows must be forced to let the user choose from a list of Browsers to install by default and include the install files in their OS, then so should Apple and every distro of Linux. The operating system needs to install a tested and working browser so that updates can be installed. That is all it is for. If you don't want to use it, the second the install is finished you can install any browser you want. It is just another piece of software. I mean you could say the same thing about how WMP is installed by default over something like VLC. This is probably just over some one sore feeling from the IE and Netscape wars that caused MS to build IE into their OS in the first place.

If anything should be done...MS should be fined for not giving people the option to have Acrobat Reader installed in Windows 8 by default. They have some sort of app installed by default for reading pdf files but I don't see any option to print them from it even. If I could, I'd have every app disabled by default. There isn't a single one I want to use.

Actually, this is exactly that.

The fine is a result of MS not following the terms of that settlement.
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post #59 of 300
What if MS just decided to not include any browsers? Is the EU going to sue because MS didn't give anyone a browser to go and download their browser of choice?
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post #60 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Browser are not a competing against Windows OS.
MS was using their control of the OS to keep other browsers from competing with their browser.

There is a difference there.

Analogy..... If Ford made 90% of all cars in the US and then said "We are installing special chips in Ford approved tires from now on. Other company's tires will no longer work in any of cars." There is no technical reason for this.... we just want to make more money and since we own most of the market, no one can stop us. HA!

Actually the more appropriate analogy would be if Ford MADE THEIR OWN tires and made the truck and tires together in a way that is difficult for other tire companies to make tires for the Ford. Guess what...it happens all the time...but not tires...engine parts, suspension parts, etc. These cars are designed in a way that you can't just bolt on anybody elses parts. But in the software business it's a no no.
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