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[Verge] EU fines Microsoft over $730 million for failing to include browser ballot in Windows 7 SP1 - Page 8  

post #71 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

Actually the more appropriate analogy would be if Ford MADE THEIR OWN tires and made the truck and tires together in a way that is difficult for other tire companies to make tires for the Ford. Guess what...it happens all the time...but not tires...engine parts, suspension parts, etc. These cars are designed in a way that you can't just bolt on anybody elses parts. But in the software business it's a no no.
Wrong. You are able to get 3rd party parts for Ford cars. (Besides, no car company has a monoloply in the US.)

Futhermore, an OS is design to run applications. It should not be designed NOT to run other companies applications just because they are your competition.

Again, it doesn't matter what YOU think.... it is the law and has already been hashed out by the EU and US seperately to the same conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

I can't see how they agreed to those terms anyway. A ballot box for software is just crazy. I guess I don't even remember that being a part of the settlement. I think they were supposed to make it possible to uninstall IE though...I don't think that ever happened so MS probably has more fines incoming. Which just makes me mad...all that happens is that MS passes the extra costs along to the consumers. I don't think these fines ever do much of anything other than help the governments get some more money...which isn't a bad thing either...just sucks that some will come out of my pockets as well for a government I am not part of.
No, it absolutely was part of the settlement.

MS cannot remove IE anymore since it is so integrated into the OS (for the last 15 years).
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post #72 of 300
I think the lawsuit is ridiculous but they do have grounds. Law and those who enforce it view it as a business, not as "lets do whats right". That is why you can be sent to prison for 10 - 25 years for murder and rape but where I live you get sent to prison for 10 years for each weed plant you grow and you can also be sentenced 35 years for successfully hacking information. The punishments hardly ever fit the crime, even though the United States constitution guarantees reasonable bail and punishment. And I ask, who decides what is reasonable? The lawsuit isn't the joke, law is the joke.
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post #73 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Wrong. You are able to get 3rd party parts for Ford cars. (Besides, no car company has a monoloply in the US.)

Yes, but you can't go into a Ford Dealership and order a Ford Mustang with a Chevy 454 engine in it (Or how about a Rolls Royce with an Astin Martin engine since we are talking EU ... FROM THE FACTORY) and require that the Rolls Royce support and service the Astin Martin engine.

The point you bring up about "3rd Party Parts" just goes to only bolster my and others cases. Yes you CAN put an Astin Martin engine in a Rolls Royce ... just like you CAN install Google Chrome on a Windows operating system. But just doesn't come FROM THE FACTORY like that.
post #74 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

How is that incorrect and rediculous?

Because you lack a basic understanding of the law (and, apparently, English).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

So what?

It's their OS, they should be allowed to blow what ever software they want in their operating system. What next, the EU is going to sue Microsoft because they are blocking spyware, trojans and viri in their OS?

If Google is pissed that that Microsoft doesn't allow Chrome in Windows, maybe Google should write their own operating system ... oh wait, maybe that is a bad example since they have.

Maybe it Opera pissed that that Microsoft doesn't allow Opera in Windows, maybe Opera should write their own operating system ... oh wait, maybe that is a bad example since they have.

Maybe it Firefox pissed that that Microsoft doesn't allow Firefox in Windows, maybe Firefox should write their own operating system ... oh wait, maybe that is a bad example since they have.

Etc, etc, etc.

Your responses to this are always juvenile. Similar to a child stamping their feet saying they're going to start their own tree house club instead. That's not the way of the world.

Google own Android. They publish their own default webkit browser, and Chrome. There is also Opera, Firefox and a plethora of other OS's on Android. None of those OS's are restricted from doing anything that Chrome can do. Google sets out standards for apps on Android, and they follow them themselves. The only restriction to publishing an app on Android is that you follow them (mainly, the Holo theme).

The point is, your opinion doesn't matter, because the fact is that MS can't blow out the competition whenever they feel like it simply to stop there being competition. There are laws against it.
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post #75 of 300
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purger View Post

It was already re-darn-diculous, but now hilarity ensues.

Do I smell a sudden 'unexplained' lack of Windows support in Europe coming? Good thing the XBox 360 isn't as popular over there....

Are you seriously suggesting that MS would withdraw from a market of 500 million (750 if you mean whole Europe) people because of a relatively small fine?
 
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post #76 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Yes, but you can't go into a Ford Dealership and order a Ford Mustang with a Chevy 454 engine in it (Or how about a Rolls Royce with an Astin Martin engine since we are talking EU ... FROM THE FACTORY) and require that the Rolls Royce support and service the Astin Martin engine.

The point you bring up about "3rd Party Parts" just goes to only bolster my and others cases. Yes you CAN put an Astin Martin engine in a Rolls Royce ... just like you CAN install Google Chrome on a Windows operating system. But just doesn't come FROM THE FACTORY like that.

A car is not a computer and your analogy doesn't fit.

And furthermore, you are either very ignorant, or you just keep accidentally not seeing the part where the choice of browsers is a punishment. The choice was never a key part of the case. The choice isn't the crux of the matter. It's the punishment., This is why all your car analogies and your tree-house club analogies don't fit or matter at all.


The forced choice is a punishment to Microsoft and it's something they agreed to do.
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post #77 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Are you seriously suggesting that MS would withdraw from a market of 500 million people because of a relatively small fine?

He lost me when he suggested the Xbox isn't that popular here.
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post #78 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

The point is, your opinion doesn't matter, because the fact is that MS can't blow out the competition whenever they feel like it simply to stop there being competition. There are laws against it.

Ah, so your argument basically boils down to "Microsoft is wrong because the law says they are, regardless of what is right and wrong." Gotcha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

A car is not a computer and your analogy doesn't fit.

It only doesn't fit because you lack the ability to see the point ... or are simply ignoring that they are so similar that to acknowledge it would force you to rethink your stance.
post #79 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Because you lack a basic understanding of the law (and, apparently, English).
Your responses to this are always juvenile. Similar to a child stamping their feet saying they're going to start their own tree house club instead. That's not the way of the world.

Google own Android. They publish their own default webkit browser, and Chrome. There is also Opera, Firefox and a plethora of other OS's on Android. None of those OS's are restricted from doing anything that Chrome can do. Google sets out standards for apps on Android, and they follow them themselves. The only restriction to publishing an app on Android is that you follow them (mainly, the Holo theme).

The point is, your opinion doesn't matter, because the fact is that MS can't blow out the competition whenever they feel like it simply to stop there being competition. There are laws against it.

DUDE...I'm trying to be serious and yet you are insulting. You are the reason this thread will be closed. I didn't ask for your input on my level of understanding or some judgement as to my logical comprehension. Or for an insult either. If you are going to continue to be degrading, STOP so the rest of us can hav a discussion without threads being closed!
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post #80 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Yes, but you can't go into a Ford Dealership and order a Ford Mustang with a Chevy 454 engine in it (Or how about a Rolls Royce with an Astin Martin engine since we are talking EU ... FROM THE FACTORY) and require that the Rolls Royce support and service the Astin Martin engine.

The point you bring up about "3rd Party Parts" just goes to only bolster my and others cases. Yes you CAN put an Astin Martin engine in a Rolls Royce ... just like you CAN install Google Chrome on a Windows operating system. But just doesn't come FROM THE FACTORY like that.
You miss the point of the analogy.

Note my anology specifically stated:
1) 90% of marketshare = price leader = monolopy
2) They installed a chip that has no technical merit

Besides, your extension of the anology is incorrect as it misses the main point. Why can you install another companies parts into a Ford? Because there are standards and/or you can take measurements. Otherwise, how would another company know how to make a compatible part? With software, if there are no published documentation.... you can't easily take "measurements". You are poking a black box and attempting to figure inputs and outputs. To futher add.... car companies actually are including properitary software diagnostic interfaces into their cars. Because of this, some future car service will only be able to be done by a dealership. An independent mechanic can purchase the tools but they would have to by one for each make of car. Luckily, the US government has already regulated that some data must follow a certain standard for open use.



Chrome works in the Windows OS today because MS has since published the necessary API calls. Imagine trying to understand how HTTP works in Windows without this documentation in 1999:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa384080(v=vs.85).aspx
Edited by DuckieHo - 3/6/13 at 8:27am
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