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[Verge] EU fines Microsoft over $730 million for failing to include browser ballot in Windows 7 SP1 - Page 10  

post #91 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Post based on assumptions without any knowledge... plain and simple. wink.gif

Huh? I'm posting my opinion of what I believe this to be. I thought it was OK and even welcomed to post ones thoughts in a discussion? If not let me know chief and in the future I'll be sure to run anything I might want to post past you in PM, cool?
post #92 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

MS have to include a choice of competitors software as a punishment under the agreement they signed for being found guilty of anti-trust/anti-competitiveness.

You don't need to pay MS anything to write a game for Windows. You don't need to pay or reverse engineer anything to write software for Windows... because of the results of such suits, both in the US and EU. If those cases found Microsoft not guilty, say goodbye to 90% of the software you use today.

I gave the 2 options of paying or reverse engineering as options, not practices. I guess what I meant to say is that the APIs that MS releases for the OS are a gift. They have no legal responsibility to allow anyone access to their coding. Why should they? If no one can create a better product to compete, How is that MS's fault?
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post #93 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Besides, your extension of the anology is incorrect as it misses the main point. Why can you install another companies parts into a Ford? Because there are standards and/or you can take measurements. Otherwise, how would another company know how to make a compatible part? With software, if there are no published documentation.... you can't easily take "measurements". You are poking a black box and attempting to figure inputs and outputs. To futher add.... car companies actually are including properitary software diagnostic interfaces into their cars. Because of this, some future car service will only be able to be done by a dealership. An independent mechanic can purchase the tools but they would have to by one for each make of car. Luckily, the US government has already regulated that some data must follow a certain standard for open use.

There are no set "standards" as required in automotive manufacturing. Heck, they aren't even required to us the same nuts and bolts (US vs Metric). Heck, some cars use BOTH. They can change panels and designs when ever they feel like it. There is no requirement to make a Chevy engine fit in a Ford either. In fact, without extensive modification, they WON'T.

As far as "measurements" vs "black box poking", are you actually saying that you can't fire up a compiler and start chewing code and see if it works? Sorry, but the example is much closer than you are willing to admit.

In both, there are no "standards" that require interchangeability in either cars or computers. You can do what ever you want in either (see the tag in my sig), but it's on you. Why people think that it is "ok" for one industry to be one way and the other industry another, is silly.

And as far as your hint at a "US Regulation about service", if you are hinting at ODB II ... you might want to just stop there. That is about as "required" as the MPAA rating system. It is a completely voluntary standard. Before you go down the road of what MIGHT happen by the government in the future, you might want to stop ... or give me this weeks Lotto Number, because both are most likely to be equally accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

I gave the 2 options of paying or reverse engineering as options, not practices. I guess what I meant to say is that the APIs that MS releases for the OS are a gift. They have no legal responsibility to allow anyone access to their coding. Why should they? If no one can create a better product to compete, How is that MS's fault?

Bingo
post #94 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Are you seriously suggesting that MS would withdraw from a market of 500 million (750 if you mean whole Europe) people because of a relatively small fine?

No no, not at all. They would lose way too much. I'm just saying I scenarios such as:
EU user: "Hey MS, we found a security problem in Windows 8 that is affecting EU users."
MS: "Yeah... we'll look into it."

Maybe that's exaggerating, but oh well. That's not to say it's the fault of those living in the EU. I don't know what I meant, honestly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

He lost me when he suggested the Xbox isn't that popular here.

I didn't say "that popular", I said "as popular". There's a big difference there. The last numbers I saw were a bit old, but showed the gap widening. March 2011 showed the US had bought 25.4 million, while Europe, Middle East and Africa had sold 13.7 million. So yes, something that sells over 10 million units is popular for sure. Either way, I'm headed way OT, so I digress.
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post #95 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

If someone has a new product, let the products compete on their own merits.

Agreed, let them compete on their own merit.

Microsoft has spent BILLIONS in advertising and development over the years, how is it even REMOTELY fair for them to be FORCED to carry some upstarts web browser? Let them go out and spend decades and hundreds of billions building up their products and market ... Just like Microsoft did.
post #96 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

I gave the 2 options of paying or reverse engineering as options, not practices. I guess what I meant to say is that the APIs that MS releases for the OS are a gift. They have no legal responsibility to allow anyone access to their coding. Why should they? If no one can create a better product to compete, How is that MS's fault?

Again, you have no understanding of the law or how these things work.
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post #97 of 300
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Originally Posted by KhaoticKomputing View Post

Wait, you say windows don't want you to use other browser's? GASP!

Go figure, Greedy American Corporation want's to force user's to use "their" program's by default.. What other American Corperation does this resemble?

Ok... Use Internet Explorer OR have a copy of your select browser and install it... WHAT THE HELL! Why are they suing over this... this is so freaking stupid. No one should care, the internet has everything you need. wow.
    
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post #98 of 300
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Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Agreed, let them compete on their own merit.

Microsoft has spent BILLIONS in advertising and development over the years, how is it even REMOTELY fair for them to be FORCED to carry some upstarts web browser? Let them go out and spend decades and hundreds of billions building up their products and market ... Just like Microsoft did.

How was it fair of Microsoft to abuse their dominant position the market to give advantage to their product that were inferior? It wasn't. Therefore, it's a fair punishment to have to present a choice for users.
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post #99 of 300
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Originally Posted by Frankzro View Post

Ok... Use Internet Explorer OR have a copy of your select browser and install it... WHAT THE HELL! Why are they suing over this... this is so freaking stupid. No one should care, the internet has everything you need. wow.

Yet another uninformed and ignorant post!

1. No-one is suing. They are being fined for breaching an agreement they signed.
2. When this was started (1999) the internet was a very different place.
3. Since then, because of this case, the internet is now the place we know and love. It would be very different were it not for the results of this case and the US case.
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post #100 of 300
I don't get this really. I understand that they want to have diversity on the browser market, but IE is required for GP to correctly manage site settings over an entire network.
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