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[TPU] NVIDIA Announces PhysX and APEX Support for Sony PlayStation 4 - Page 11  

post #101 of 159
In the end, the gamer wins, so, that's what it's all about.
   
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post #102 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

The funny part is where you try to speak with authority and all it sounds like is anti-NVidia dribble.

It's not anti nvidia drivel, at least I don't think it is. You're under the mistaken impression that this is the same GPU physx effects as found in games like Batman: AC. That is not the case.

You need to differentiate between physx as a physics engine/middleware (WHICH IS FREE AND WORKS ON XBOX 360, PS3, AMD, ETC) and the graphical effects physx which is not being used on the PS4. Just so you know, physx worked on the ps3 as well. Xbox 360. and AMD GPUs. I'm referring to the physx API as a physics engine - there is no hardware that it will not work on. PS4 is not getting the type of physx that you're really hoping for, such as the effects found in Borderlands 2, and Batman AC and such.. Sorry. That is not happening.

You can freely download the physx SDK which works on practically all hardware. Again, there is a difference between the physx SDK API as a physics middleware - a lot of games use physx API just for the physics engine but don't have graphical effects and don't require nvidia hardware. If you read w1zzards follow up question to nvidia regarding physx, you can see Brian Delrizzo (of nvidia) skirt around the issue and admit that it is just the physx API for the PS4 to support physics middleware.... IT is not the physx you're hoping for. Anyway, as much as you're complaining about anti nvidia drivel, it just seems that this your opportunity to spread anti AMD drivel about them not licensing physx. I seriously LOL'ed at that because that would be absolutely retarded for them to do. Besides that, the bigger issue here is that you're wrong.
Edited by xoleras - 3/8/13 at 11:09pm
post #103 of 159
1. As I saw somewhere before, PhysX is a realtime physics engine MIDDLEWARE SDK. An API is also an appropriate term.
2. PhysX is also the name of the physics processing unit (PPU) that was designed and used by Ageia for PhysX acceleration.
3. PhysX calculations are performed on the CPU - except when:

i. A PPU is present (mentioned for completeness, as of PhysX 2.8.3 it has been dropped and no one manufacturers PPUs anymore).
ii. A GeForce CUDA-capable GPU is present, accelerating (offloading) PhysX calculations to the GPU using GPGPU capabilities. There are SOME effects which are supported only when PhysX is accelerated on the GPU (dynamic smoke, cloth tearing, for instance).

PhysX could theoretically run on an AMD GPU, but without CUDA interfaces in Catalyst drivers, GPGPU accelerated PhysX will not work on an AMD GPU at the software level. You need to realize that there is a difference between the issue of not being able to run PhysX directly on AMD, vs. the issue of not being able to run PhysX on a GeForce GPU *while* there is an AMD GPU present acting as the primary graphics device.

CUDA is the interface to NVIDIA's implementation of GPGPU and provides both a high and low level API - CUDA is not just a fancy name for a stream processor, but rather the interface to access them to provide GPGPU technology on GeForce GPUs and is proprietary to NVIDIA. The low level API is the one that is required to be written into Catalyst drivers. The CUDA architecture is as follows:

+ GPU (hardware)
+++++ CPU +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++
+++++++++++ CUDA driver (A low-level API called the CUDA driver API)
+++++++++++ CUDA runtime (A higher-level API called the CUDA runtime API that is implemented on top of the CUDA driver API)
+++++++++++ CUDA libraries
+++++++++++ Applications
+++++ CPU +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++ +++++

So for an AMD GPU to support PhysX it would need to implement CUDA at the driver level, and then provide or source the runtime and CUDA libraries. There WILL be licensing involved here from NVIDIA to implement the CUDA low-level API (i.e. driver).

Hopefully that sets some stuff straight.
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post #104 of 159
That's the core issue here. Rubers is under the mistaken impression that the Physx effects which basically require an nvidia GPU and GPU physx acceleration will happen on the PS4. This is not the case, it will never work on the PS4.

Conversely, the physx as a physics middleware WILL work on the PS4 just like it did on the PS3, xbox 360, and practically everything else. Brian Delrizzo basically admitted this (and in my mind, made his press release look like complete bullcrap) when his PR was followed up by question from w1zzard. He admitted that it was just the physx middleware (for collision detection, etc) without the graphical effects.
post #105 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post


CUDA is the interface to NVIDIA's implementation of GPGPU and provides both a high and low level API - CUDA is not just a fancy name for a stream processor, but rather the interface to access them to provide GPGPU technology on GeForce GPUs and is proprietary to NVIDIA. The low level API is the one that is required to be written into Catalyst drivers. The CUDA architecture is as follows:

I said that and I corrected myself tongue.gif
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post #106 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

That's the core issue here. Rubers is under the mistaken impression that the Physx effects which basically require an nvidia GPU and GPU physx acceleration will happen on the PS4. This is not the case, it will never work on the PS4.

Conversely, the physx as a physics middleware WILL work on the PS4 just like it did on the PS3, xbox 360, and practically everything else. Brian Delrizzo basically admitted this (and in my mind, made his press release look like complete bullcrap) when his PR was followed up by question from w1zzard. He admitted that it was just the physx middleware (for collision detection, etc) without the graphical effects.

There are some PhysX effect which require GPU acceleration (and in turn CUDA on GeForce GPUs) to run, but otherwise yep, pretty much everything else will run on the CPU on all of those platforms. And indeed, those GPU only effects will never happen unless the platform/console GPU implements the CUDA API and runtime and includes CUDA libraries, because CUDA is the gateway to GPGPU for PhysX hardware acceleration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

I said that and I corrected myself tongue.gif

I guess I missed that amongst all the flames tongue.gif
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post #107 of 159
Thanks for the clarification guys.
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post #108 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

That's the core issue here. Rubers is under the mistaken impression that the Physx effects which basically require an nvidia GPU and GPU physx acceleration will happen on the PS4. This is not the case, it will never work on the PS4.

No, no no and no. I'm arguing that the PS4 could very well have GPU accelerated PhysX even though it's AMD hardware.Not ONCE did I suggest that you need NVidia hardware inside the PS4.

ALSO:

Thank you to thompsonn for basically backing me up.
Edited by Rubers - 3/9/13 at 5:19am
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post #109 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

No, no no and no. I'm arguing that the PS4 could very well have GPU accelerated PhysX even though it's AMD hardware.Not ONCE did I suggest that you need NVidia hardware inside the PS4.

ALSO:

Thank you to thompsonn for basically backing me up.

Unfortunately I think its highly improbable even so.
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post #110 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

Unfortunately I think its highly improbable even so.

Yeah, it's looking that way frown.gif It would be good if it was, but then again some of the APEX stuff when used lightly works nice on the CPU (Dishonored, for example).
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