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[PA] FBI asked for user data without a warrant according to Google - Page 7  

post #61 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

The FBI isn't involved in national security is it?

Absolutely. They handle counter-intelligence and counter-terrorism within the United States. The Department of Defense has a limited scope to send military units (usually special operations) against targets that are beyond the ability of the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team or Federal Marshals' Special Operations Group to successfully take down.
post #62 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotUrAverageJoe View Post

Bottom line: If the feds of all people can't get a search warrant you better believe they don't have justification - they're just blindly shooting in the dark.

It's not that they can't, it's that any court proceeding must immediately be made public and in the case of national security I can guarantee that 99% of judges have no security clearance at all, never mind a compartmentalized one. Any spy or terrorist worth their salt would be checking the court records daily if the FBI couldn't do this. That said, the fact that they don't have to disclose what they did immediately upon an investigation wrapping up gives me the shivers.
post #63 of 91
This isn't really about piracy or even CP/predators. This is targeting terrorist. They are bypassing warrants for extreme cases that could pose 9/11 type threats. Or am I reading this wrong?
Edited by Murlocke - 3/10/13 at 11:09pm
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post #64 of 91
    
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post #65 of 91
I have to ask (aside from the very important matter of personal privacy which is relevant to all) what kind of information are people worried about sharing?

right now i have some family photos and my cv on the cloud. thats it. i dont send political texts or emails, i dont intend to destroy anything. i DO get pissed off that google maps keeps self launching on my andriod phone, time and place tracking is where if you did want to commit and act of any kind would be of use.. in which case you turn your phone off but its a freedom i have given away by owning a mobile phone.. the same freedom that got the repair truck to me when my car broke down.

we have to accept that we are now all part of the control system, but nothing on earth stops anyone from committing an act of violence. The government don't care like you do about people getting shot on the way to work they only really care about 3 things Tax evasion, service disruption, mass political gatherings. and via social media monitoring, location tracking and bank checks they already have most of that in focus.. again that doesnt actually stop it happening it just allows for them to beef up the response so you dont take out the control system.

back to square one. You want the tech & the convenience but its that very technology (this site and all thats on it) that is a tool for bad as much as it is for good. Its upto people to speak out and defend their rights and make sure access to personal information is not bullied out of companies by the government and there secret cronies.

so .. saying that we shouldnt talk about this on here is shameful be you a private or public entity and I just wonder why you really do take that stance thinking.gif
Edited by Pip Boy - 3/10/13 at 11:27pm
post #66 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proxy3scapist View Post

I strongly agree with this concept, wouldn't be in my line of work if I didn't...I can't follow up with anything else without sounding like a complete ******* who dislikes civilians so I'll just leave it at that thumb.gif

When your doing active investigation, sure I guess you could treat civilians with a little scrutiny. The problem is, if you start treating people in a specific way you will get them to act that way. The prison experiment is one of the biggest examples, they also have other examples. So if you honestly do this all the time, or if everyone in your line of work did, you would create a much bigger problem. You would get people who do not normally act out to start doing ambiguous things. This becomes a problem, now you would have civilians who will cover for those that do illicit things. They will do so willingly, which makes your job even that much harder.

You can't just blindly treat people as a criminal, it will create criminals. So while you might do this, most people in your position won't. It would open up all sorts of issues in any legal system. If you are searching for something, you'll end up finding "links" to it. You would overload the judicial system with trials and paperwork that is unnecessary, also causing much angst and hate among the civilians. Might as well put us all in camps, watch our every move and lock us up at that point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotUrAverageJoe View Post

I think we have a miscommunication friend. I am in no way advocating the criminalization of people.. My main points were a) You have a ridiculous amount of both false positives and accidental discoveries - which to me brings into question the effectiveness of their methods. b) How ridiculous some people are. You can surrender all your rights and you still won't catch 100% of the criminals, so people that are advocating we to go to a police state need to wake up. It's amazing the extent people are willing to go to for their false sense of security.

I agree with your points. Bottom line: If the feds of all people can't get a search warrant you better believe they don't have justification - they're just blindly shooting in the dark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrwulf View Post

It's not that they can't, it's that any court proceeding must immediately be made public and in the case of national security I can guarantee that 99% of judges have no security clearance at all, never mind a compartmentalized one. Any spy or terrorist worth their salt would be checking the court records daily if the FBI couldn't do this. That said, the fact that they don't have to disclose what they did immediately upon an investigation wrapping up gives me the shivers.

I quoted these both, because it's a joint response? Sometimes they don't have the evidence to get a warrant, sometimes it's because they can't get one in time. Since all trial information is closed to the public until the trial they normally don't worry about that.. Not only that, a lot of evidence doesn't go to trial. Only the best does, I doubt getting a warrant would make that information public. You also have judges with enough clearance, just sometimes they do want things kept hush hush. So they have various reasons to circumvent this. I don't think it's right, they could have implemented a better system than this. How, I don't know and can't discuss anyways.
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post #67 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt View Post

FBI-asked-for-user-data-without-a-warrant-according-to-Google.jpg
Source
Phone arena is your source? Really? How about the Wall St Journal's article that it cites. Phonearena has no street cred.
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post #68 of 91
would be disturbing if i hadn't already known this since the internet was invented. was only a matter of time.
post #69 of 91
The president signed the NDAA, which basically means they can arrest you without charges and not give access to a lawyer. Some whistle blowers have steeped forward from the NSA which showed they can store at least 100 terabytes a minute over a 3 year period at least. so they can store the entire Internet flow and look back and flag people and data once they target you. WE all know where this leads. Goverment workers with no oversight can carry out personal vendetta. In many ways the FBI is like the Stazi in East Germany now. there are reasons why the us goverment is running out of money now trying to monitor all its citizens. It only gets worse from here.
Edited by Maximization - 3/11/13 at 2:29am
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post #70 of 91

Yeah it's being abused and that's the problem. Using this system to fight terrorist is one thing, but finding someone guilty of much lesser crimes without a warrant should not be "usable" evidence in a court. They didn't use a proper warrant so the evidence, even if true, should not be able to be used unless it's terrorism related. They are breaking the law in order to catch law breakers, a line was crossed, and anyone being taken in for anything less than terrorism by this method should be found innocent and not be able to be persecuted in the future with any of the evidence found via these means.

I feel anyone that is brought up on charges using these methods should be able to counter sue, and easily win and go free (and maybe even make some money in the process). This is assuming our court system actually makes sure our rights aren't violated, which we all know isn't always the case.
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