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[TI] AMD looks to HSA Foundation to avoid AMD64 mistakes - Page 4

post #31 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryDemon View Post

Shame Intel and Nvidia didnt get onboard since HSA seems to require a lot more than a few compiler flags to be set. It's gonna be a pain for developers to support multiple standards.

HSA is essentially a coalition of companies that want to take down Intel and/or NVIDIA. Why would they join?
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post #32 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

I see it, so what your saying is the CPU basically preps the code the GPU will run (lack of better word), hands execution over. I know code, just NOTHING about CUDA/GPU type stuff. I thought you were referencing something else, idk we all get lost sometimes. lol Yeah I get what you mean now. So then does that imply that the GPU cannot just run code on it's own, even if you wrote a program to run on the arch does it have the resources to do what the CPU is doing? I'm guessing that's more to the point of your question isn't it?
That's the point of HSA.... it's takes a lot of extra effort to program for the GPU. The "Heterogeneous" part of the name explains that they want to make developing for the different CPU architectures and GPU designs easier. 99% of developers do not care/understand the hardware their code runs on. They just want their code to run. Once you create a development standard or paradigm, it opens development up to more programmers.... which leads to more software.... which leads to more adoption.

This threatens Intel since they basically own the massive x86 market.
This threatens NVIDIA since they have CUDA. However, they will probably join eventually if this takes off and as OpenCL and other standards errodes CUDA's marketshare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

HSA is essentially a coalition of companies that want to take down Intel and/or NVIDIA. Why would they join?
No.... HSA is a coalition of companies that want to make development easier. NVIDIA and Intel are not bared from joining. They will probably enact standards that NVIDIA or Intel could choose to adopt.
Edited by DuckieHo - 3/13/13 at 2:13pm
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post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

HSA is a coalition of companies that want to make development easier. NVIDIA and Intel are not bared from joining. They will probably enact standards that NVIDIA or Intel could choose to adopt.

The way I see it their end goal is taking Intel/NVIDIA down; the development angle is merely the tactic used to get to that goal.
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post #34 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

That's the point of HSA.... it's takes a lot of extra effort to program for the GPU. The "Heterogeneous" part of the name explains that they want to make developing for the different CPU architectures and GPU designs easier. 99% of developers do not care/understand the hardware their code runs on. They just want their code to run. Once you create a development standard or paradigm, it opens development up to more programmers.... which leads to more software.... which leads to more adoption.

This threatens Intel since they basically own the massive x86 market.
This threatens NVIDIA since they have CUDA. However, they will probably join eventually if this takes off and as OpenCL and other standards errodes CUDA's marketshare.
No.... HSA is a coalition of companies that want to make development easier. NVIDIA and Intel are not bared from joining. They will probably enact standards that NVIDIA or Intel could choose to adopt.

Ahh clarity, I'd rep you just don't see a need. wink.gif
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post #35 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

The way I see it their end goal is taking Intel/NVIDIA down; the development angle is merely the tactic used to get to that goal.
The goal of every company is to increase value which includes beating the competition.

...so what?

The development angle is the angle of EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE! Make it easy for developers if you want mainstream development and mass adoption.... leading to sales... to profits.
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post #36 of 39
HSA has to contend with AVX2(512-bit) and AVX3(1024-bit) since Intel's compiler is 1) already far more popular/better than AMDs and 2) its less difficult to vectorize code/flag for AVX than it is to contend with a co-processor like a GPU so it has a dual benefit. Not to mention you get much closer to peak performance due to the CPU's inherent flexibility and the latency involved in writing code for a co-processor.
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post #37 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

HSA has to contend with AVX2(512-bit) and AVX3(1024-bit) since Intel's compiler is 1) already far more popular/better than AMDs and 2) its less difficult to vectorize code/flag for AVX than it is to contend with a co-processor like a GPU so it has a dual benefit. Not to mention you get much closer to peak performance due to the CPU's inherent flexibility and the latency involved in writing code for a co-processor.

I doubt they're ditching AVX, instead, the iGPU will supplement the FPU and AVX through HSA.
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post #38 of 39
AMD won't ditch AVX considering the cross-license, but it will be rendered useless with AMD's efforts with HSA, AVX being faster on Intel's arch, and the Intel compilers.

AMD could get AVX to work in conjunction with their HSA initiative, but there won't be enough internal bandwidth for the 256-bit registers, and the GPU. This is a major reason Intel is moving to embedded RAM to help alleviate the bandwidth issues.
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post #39 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

HSA has to contend with AVX2(512-bit) and AVX3(1024-bit) since Intel's compiler is 1) already far more popular/better than AMDs and 2) its less difficult to vectorize code/flag for AVX than it is to contend with a co-processor like a GPU so it has a dual benefit. Not to mention you get much closer to peak performance due to the CPU's inherent flexibility and the latency involved in writing code for a co-processor.

The main issue with AVX is that GPUs can't use it. HSA's advantage would be the utilization of brute performance of a GPU, assuming the CPU isn't paired with a GPU equivalent to an Intel GMA.

Couldn't AMD also increase the bandwidth between the CPU and GPU to allow the usage of the 256-bit registers? Although it maybe a problem for dedicated GPUs (bandwidth limited by PCI-E), I don't see how an APU can't be fixed to resolve the bandwidth problem.
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