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[PCGH.de] Titan sli Vs 7970 Toxic cf - Page 15

post #141 of 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3illusiveman View Post

Guess the 1240 wasn't stable after all. Still though, that's one of the lowest scores i've seen for a guy claiming to be running one of the highest OCs i've seen in Valley...
....

That's with an AMD 8320 CPU.

EDIT: Ninja'd
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post #142 of 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Are you claiming that SLI with an acceptable gap between the cards and acceptable airflow will raise temperatures so much that the card can't keep itself above 837MHz?

These cards don't consume any more power than 7970s, much less than those 1200mhz 7970s, they do not run hot and if you can't keep them within acceptable temps in a case then you should get a new case for doing reviews. If these people ran on a test bench then they have absolutely no reason to even claim that they should lock them to 867

No. You are not only not trying to even understand, you are playing games of "this is not possible".

I'm saying that if the cards are running hot in an environment not necessarily idle (benchmark system with not enough air circulation), the cards can run too hot and start throttling themselves down.
It can happen. You are just claiming its never ever possible, which is completely untrue.
Even teckpowerup showed that they can make the cards run at 837mhz only when pushing the card very hard. Why do you think they didn't in an non-idle environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallendreams View Post


Dph titans are not binned. Mine can achieve the around same clocks at stock. 1071mhz with pt at 104% and 980mhz at 100% pt. not trying to argue, just throwing that out there.

This review needs to be redone but yes nvidia has some work to do with the titan scaling.

Hmm evga claimed that the Superclocked cards are binned to higher stock speeds (876mhz stock with 928mhz as base boost).
Still I would love to know the temps you get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

So what you're saying is that if I got a 2nd card my cards would suddenly only run at 837MHz...

With a single card I'm not even close to downclocking, the fan is at under 60%, which with a titan is more silent than any other blower fan at 40%...

Yes, lets take your case, with a CPU next to it running at phase change and an environment a lot cooler than normal? That is a "real world scenario" there for you... 55c max temps. Very real world scenario.

We are saying that two cards, one next to the other, can run very hot.
Guru3D got them to 80c, techpowerup got them to 80c, and so did others.
Techpowerup showed that when running very hot, they start to throttle down.

Hence, the conclusion, that they want to prevent the cards from throttling down on them.
Maybe in most games it wasn't needed. Maybe in others it did. Maybe they missed the 993mhz boost.
I don't know. And neither do you.
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post #143 of 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

No. You are not only not trying to even understand, you are playing games of "this is not possible".

I'm saying that if the cards are running hot in an environment not necessarily idle (benchmark system with not enough air circulation), the cards can run too hot and start throttling themselves down.
It can happen. You are just claiming its never ever possible, which is completely untrue.
Even teckpowerup showed that they can make the cards run at 837mhz only when pushing the card very hard. Why do you think they didn't in an non-idle environment.
Hmm evga claimed that the Superclocked cards are binned to higher stock speeds (876mhz stock with 928mhz as base boost).
Still I would love to know the temps you get.
Yes, lets take your case, with a CPU next to it running at phase change and an environment a lot cooler than normal? That is a "real world scenario" there for you... 55c max temps. Very real world scenario.

We are saying that two cards, one next to the other, can run very hot.
Guru3D got them to 80c, techpowerup got them to 80c, and so did others.
Techpowerup showed that when running very hot, they start to throttle down.

Hence, the conclusion, that they want to prevent the cards from throttling down on them.
Maybe in most games it wasn't needed. Maybe in others it did. Maybe they missed the 993mhz boost.
I don't know. And neither do you.

If you check my screenshot above you will see that at stock setting my card will go up to 79-80C. In 24-27C ambients. In line with reviewers, my ambients are probably somewhat higher as well. As for TPUs scenario, it was completely synthetic and the card will not ramp up in temperature like that unless the fan is at a constant RPM.

Now I am aware that downclocking can happen if you do not provide good enough airflow for the cards but in this review they would obviously have had good enough airflow since they could cool two 1200MHz 7970s.

What is the point of making a review if you're gonna go: "this card might downclock if we can't give it airflow, so we might as well lock it to the downclocked frequency."

I'm sorry but what? That doesn't make any sense at all.
 
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post #144 of 666
This Toxic card costs $600 at Newegg, so only $400 cheaper than a Titan. The Toxic may do 1300 MHz overclock max on it's air cooler, so in the review it's about 8% away from it's max clock being at 1200 MHz.

Titan's will do around 1200 MHz on air as their max overclock. So the review is an incredible 39% away from it's max overclock being at 867 MHz. So once the Titan is put at an appropriate overclock, it would smash the 7970 which it already beats. No one buys Toxic 7970's and Titan's to keep them at stock.

/thread
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post #145 of 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

So let me get this straight, they had the 7970s at 1200MHz but LOCKED the Titans to 867MHz? I mean seriously? How is this review even remotely representative of anything?

Here's my card:


I mean this is just silly, if anyone is putting any weight on this review they're just wanting to see something. There's literally nothing (except the stuttering comments) that could be relevant in the real world. There is absolutely 0 reason to lock a titan to 867MHz if you own the card. Outside of doing double precision work that is.
what in the world is the reason for disabling a stock feature?

When a cards cost $2000 it shouldn't need and overclock to beat $1200 cards. Or better yet cards that cost $750.

That's my reasoning.
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post #146 of 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

When a cards cost $2000 it shouldn't need and overclock to beat $1200 cards. Or better yet cards that cost $750.

That's my reasoning.

It doesn't. The cards in this review are artificially locked to 867MHz even though titans normally run at around 980MHz on stock settings.
 
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post #147 of 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

If you check my screenshot above you will see that at stock setting my card will go up to 79-80C. In 24-27C ambients. In line with reviewers, my ambients are probably somewhat higher as well. As for TPUs scenario, it was completely synthetic and the card will not ramp up in temperature like that unless the fan is at a constant RPM.

Now I am aware that downclocking can happen if you do not provide good enough airflow for the cards but in this review they would obviously have had good enough airflow since they could cool two 1200MHz 7970s.

What is the point of making a review if you're gonna go: "this card might downclock if we can't give it airflow, so we might as well lock it to the downclocked frequency."

I'm sorry but what? That doesn't make any sense at all.

Well they did state they had problems with temps so the locked the cards. I didn't understand why or exactly what problems.
Regarding the 7970s, they have different cooling solution. They are not stock cooled. Those are binned cards, meaning at lower volts and heat they get higher. The toxic card on most reviews I have seen are at the lower bar of how hot they are.

And the point? I don't know. I guess they got the cards and felt like it biggrin.gif
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post #148 of 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Well they did state they had problems with temps so the locked the cards. I didn't understand why or exactly what problems.
Regarding the 7970s, they have different cooling solution. They are not stock cooled. Those are binned cards, meaning at lower volts and heat they get higher. The toxic card on most reviews I have seen are at the lower bar of how hot they are.

And the point? I don't know. I guess they got the cards and felt like it biggrin.gif



A toxic card with the 1200mhz boost will draw more than a titan.

And as for the review; I don't have a problem with them experiencing some weird issues with their cooling solutions, I have an issue with them making an incredibly unprofessional decision to not fix their cooling issue (if there was one that really affected the cards). Having a dual card solution that normally works fine everywhere else overheat during a review usually means that the reviewer did something wrong.

All I really would have liked to have seen was stock titans vs. stock 7970s. Neither card is stock in this instance.
 
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post #149 of 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renairy View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Meet my Titan .... THAT IS STOCK CLOCK !! Dw about GPU-Z

Firstly, Renairy i'd recommend you to put back those rubber covers for the M5F barbs. (or if you lost them start searching)

Secondly. to the whole discussion:

i agree that the clock cripple wasn't that fair and the 1200 core on the 7970 isn't too but i'm not ruling this test out completely. IMO the reviewer should have done this test as an additional one rather than the only one. he should have tried to run the titan without locks and the 7970 at the Ghz ed max clock (1000) or at least to use the default 1100 core of the toxic cards. also a little effort to try and OC the Titans would have been nice.
(e.g. a test with locked boost titan and regular 7970 Ghz clocks & a test with stock unlocked boost titan clocks with 7970 Ghz & a test with a unlocked boost titan and the both 7970 toxic options)

and to the price argument: sure the titan isn't the best performance for the price compared to the 7970 (GHz) but lets not forget that overall a 400$ gpu (the most basic Ghz 7970) is also kinda expensive outside the Enthusiast community (let alone 2). and if that isn't enough look at prices outside the US which get ridiculous sometimes.
regarding the toxic card itself, i guess it was chosen just because the 6GB VRAM and TBH it isn't a great buy because of the price and the lack of GPU blocks tongue.gif

Thirdly: IMO the best combo out there today price to (high) performance wise is 2x 7950 CF.
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post #150 of 666
Chill out guys it is just a review lol!

Btw how does a 7970 at 1200 on core stack up to a stock titan?
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