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2 ssd in raid 0? - Page 5

post #41 of 59
I've built over 300 rigs in my life, I use to build gaming rigs for a friends business. I've never had a raid 0 fail in the last 8 years or so. People are always worrying about a drive failing, this day and age, it's not that big of a concern. Keep important data on a separate drive and just have your OS on the Raided drives. The improvement can be pretty big. Is it noticeable? TRhats hard to say other than benchmarks but who cares, may as well have a fast as you can right?
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post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomik9274 View Post

i was thinking two ocz vertex 80gb
or a single samsung/intel 120

anything you can recommend for raid 0 or just a single
I rather you have a single Intel/Plextor/ADATA/Kingston HyperX 3K

Being OCZ Vertex 1&2 are very unreliable as an SSD. In fact they are the top 2 most failed SSD ever
You make the choice
Quote:
Here are some hard numbers ...

Return rates for SSDs by vendor: ( confirmed defects )

Prior to April 2011 :

- Intel 0.1%
- Crucial 0.8%
- Corsair 2.9%
- OCZ 4.2%

(parts sold between April and October 2011, for returns created before April 2012)

- Crucial 0.82% (against 0.8%)
- Intel 1.73% (against 0.1%)
- Corsair 2.93% (against 2.9%)
- OCZ 7.03% (against 4.2%)

splitout of the OCZ failers :

- 15.58% 2 OCZ Vertex Series 240GB SSD
- 13.28% 2 OCZ Vertex Series 160GB SSD
- 11.76% 2 OCZ Vertex Series SSD 80GB
- 9.52% 2 OCZ Vertex Series 120GB SSD
- 8.57% 3 OCZ Vertex Series 120GB
- 7.49% 2 OCZ Vertex Series SSD 60GB
- 6.61% 2 OCZ Vertex Series 3.5 "SSD 120GB
- 6.37% 3 OCZ Vertex Series 240GB
- 6.37% March 60 GB OCZ Agility
- 5.89% 2 OCZ Vertex Series 100GB SSD
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomik9274 View Post

im pretty sure im going to do a raid 0 setup with 2 80gb ssd. im just trying to decide on a brand cause im sure it would be better to have the same 2. for some reason people keep saying it doubles your chances of failure but 1. arn't ssd alot more reliable. 2. the only thing i could see killing my drives is power overload or i mess up a file. so i dont really get why people dislike raid so much. like you said earlier. if your single one crashes you still lose all your data.

by the way, when people say it doubles the chance of failure do they mean the ssd is just junk once it fails?
Yes. If you think it's safer you're being ignorant as if your single SSD fails you just need to replace one but with double SSDs you need to buy 2 new ones and setup a new raid array again.
1. Not with the old OCZ drives and the new Samsungs are made on higher density TLC flash which means more limited R/W cycles which translate to lower reliability. The Kingston HyperX's are still made on 40nm process
2. Not really. Drives are definitely not crash-safe. A big error in RAID 0 can bring a array down to it's knees
Edited by DaveLT - 3/10/13 at 12:27pm
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post #43 of 59
Here is my take on SSD Sata 3 Raid 0. I was running a single Crucial M4 Sata3 128GB ssd, it booted into windows 7 fast and loaded programs at blazing speeds. The only draw back it had was the amount of storage you can have on it . Then 8 months later, I was intrigued by the fast sequential Read and Write speed people were getting with Raid 0 SSDs. I really wanted to experiment with a raid 0 array to see what kind of performance I can gain from it. So I bought 2 Samsung 128GB 840Pro ssds and set them up with raid 0 array. I think this was before Intel officially supported Trim command on raid ssds. I must say it was alot more hassle than I initialy thought.

First, back then TRIM was not supported in Raid 0, so eventually your ssd read / write performance will degrade over time. Then Intel came out with TRIM support for Z77 motherboards with Intel RST 11.x SATA drivers but there was catch. Your motherboard vendor should include the correct Raid ORom firmware loaded into the Bios to have Intel 11.x RST drivers working properly. Simple right? Just visit Asus website and download the latest bios and flash away right?.. Nope! Asus does not include the proper Raid ORom firmware needed in their latest Bios updates (thanks Asus thumb.gif). I had to use a Hacked Z77 bios which included the correct ORom needed by the Intel RST drivers just to have TRIM command working on your Raid 0 ssds. You can read more Here http://www.overclock.net/t/1244232/asus-asrock-bioss-with-updated-raid-orom

Second, You cant do a ssd firmware update on a raid 0 array. You must first perform a full backup of your whole raid 0 array using Window7 disk image and save it on a separate HDD. Then break up your raid array. Boot to a diffent OS from yet another ssd or on separate computer, and perform a firmware update there on each of the ssds. After that, re-create your raid array, then use Windows 7 recovery boot feature to restore back to your original disk image. Bam done!

Third, I see no difference in performance. Sure my ssd benchmark shows 1Gb read and 1Gb write, but my 4k reads are the same as my single Crucial M4 which is what's important in the real world use. Actually my boot times are slower because the motherboard has to load up the Raid driver as someone had already mentioned. So to me its not worth it as single SSDs are already more than capable. Hope this was helpful.
Edited by EVO PC - 3/10/13 at 1:30pm
post #44 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturnal Link View Post

Buying a smaller 64GB SSD to replace the one that failed in the RAID 0 array is going to be a lot cheaper than buying another single, larger capacity SSD... in either scenario, if a drive fails, you'll still need to get a replacement.

True, but the point I was trying to clarify is that you are now twice as likely to have to buy something new. With single SSD you are half as likely to have to buy something twice as expensive. With RAID0 you are twice as likely to have to buy something half as expensive. Its a trade off. Either way it sucks and everything has a gamble to it.
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post #45 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomik9274 View Post

im just trying to decide on a brand cause im sure it would be better to have the same 2.

Definitely get a matching pair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomik9274 View Post

for some reason people keep saying it doubles your chances of failure

I don't know why people would be saying that; how does creating a RAID array subject the hard drive to more use/wear than it would be when operating on its own?
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomik9274 View Post

but 1. arn't ssd alot more reliable.

They are significantly more durable; just don't try to run a defragmentation program on an SSD...
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomik9274 View Post

2. the only thing i could see killing my drives is power overload or i mess up a file. so i dont really get why people dislike raid so much. like you said earlier. if your single one crashes you still lose all your data.

Yep, just follow the rules and read a guide on how to properly set up the RAID array and you should be good to go. And, yeah, if you get a virus on the drive or delete something from the OS, etc., of course somethings gonna go wrong. Other repliers do make a valid point, though. A single drive is much simpler and if you get a newer, quicker SSD at the same price of two smaller ones, by the time (if) your drive was to fail, you'd probably be able to pick up another single SSD for even cheaper than the first time around; if you go for the smaller ones and one of them mechanically fails, there's a chance you might not be able to find a second one of the same SSD since so much time has passed... it all depends really. I see no problem with RAID arrays. I love 'em. Yeah, the boot time is a few seconds longer because the BIOS has to check the array, but the boosted sequential speed can be noticeable when you're actually in Windows or playing a game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomik9274 View Post

by the way, when people say it doubles the chance of failure do they mean the ssd is just junk once it fails?

If they're talking failure, it usually means the drive mechanically failed... or died. If there is a problem detected by Windows with files or Windows won't start, etc., you may just need to reimage them and start over; stuff happens. Always have a backup; your 750GB (depending on how old it is) should do just fine. thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomik9274 View Post

and about the ssd you recommended. how bullet proof is it? ar-15 with hollow point, bullet proof? biggrin.gif

Haha, not literally bullet proof; although, a company might actually produce one someday... most of them are encased in metal or hard plastic, so to replace one with Kevlar or reinforced steel is definitely possible. The one I recommended just has good reviews everywhere; that's what I meant.

Good luck to ya! smile.gif
post #46 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

Yes. If you think it's safer you're being ignorant as if your single SSD fails you just need to replace one but with double SSDs you need to buy 2 new ones and setup a new raid array again.

Why would you need to buy two? If ONE fails, the other one is still mechanically functional. Simply buy another matching SSD, if you can. If they no longer produce the same exact drive by the time the one fails, you can still RAID another drive with similar specs... RAID does not have to consist of two matching drives. By the time that time might have come, it's likely a bigger, faster drive would be available for a cheaper price anyways and he could just upgrade. The point is, right now, it's right for his budget, and there's no problem with RAID arrays. If it fails within the warranty, big deal... ship it back for a replacement. If it's outside the warranty, again, it's probably time for an upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

Drives are definitely not crash-safe. A big error in RAID 0 can bring a array down to it's knees

Reimage the drives and redo the array... if the SSDs still work and there was just an unlikely malfunction, they still work. Then, there's just a night of reinstalling and migrating backed up necessities to the array. Ideally, the only thing on the SSDs would be the OS, programs, and games, all of which can just be reinstalled. Especially in his situation... that's maybe 5 games total. A pain in the butt, but a highly unlikely one to occur anyways.

Do not worry, bro... seriously... if RAID were so dangerously unstable and unreliable, do you really think they would keep integrating the capabilities into every single motherboard that comes out? Think of how many servers on the planet utilize RAID.

Failures can happen. A meteor could land in the middle of your city and you might not see it coming.

Be afraid...
devil.gif
post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturnal Link View Post

I don't know why people would be saying that; how does creating a RAID array subject the hard drive to more use/wear than it would be when operating on its own?

It has nothing to do with usage or wear and tear. It has everything to do with statistics and probability.

Every piece of hardware has a failure rate. Lets say that any given SSD has a failure rate such that one in every 100 will die within the first 30 days of its use. Ok, so if I have 1 SSD the likelyhood of me getting the failing drive, is 1 in 100, or 1%. Now lets say I have 2 SSD in RAID, now my probability is the odds of 2 out of 100, or 2%. It is not a huge jump when it comes to the raw numbers, but if you look at 2% being 200% of 1%, then it is a little more significant.
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post #48 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturnal Link View Post

Why would you need to buy two? If ONE fails, the other one is still mechanically functional. Simply buy another matching SSD, if you can. If they no longer produce the same exact drive by the time the one fails, you can still RAID another drive with similar specs... RAID does not have to consist of two matching drives. By the time that time might have come, it's likely a bigger, faster drive would be available for a cheaper price anyways and he could just upgrade. The point is, right now, it's right for his budget, and there's no problem with RAID arrays. If it fails within the warranty, big deal... ship it back for a replacement. If it's outside the warranty, again, it's probably time for an upgrade.
Reimage the drives and redo the array... if the SSDs still work and there was just an unlikely malfunction, they still work. Then, there's just a night of reinstalling and migrating backed up necessities to the array. Ideally, the only thing on the SSDs would be the OS, programs, and games, all of which can just be reinstalled. Especially in his situation... that's maybe 5 games total. A pain in the butt, but a highly unlikely one to occur anyways.

Do not worry, bro... seriously... if RAID were so dangerously unstable and unreliable, do you really think they would keep integrating the capabilities into every single motherboard that comes out? Think of how many servers on the planet utilize RAID.

Failures can happen. A meteor could land in the middle of your city and you might not see it coming.

Be afraid...
devil.gif

I don't think anyone is trying to make the OP afraid of anything. Especially of doing RAID, but he asked the question, and this community is helping him be aware of all possible situations that can occur. It is best to know a ton of information about what you are considering rather than going into it blind. I don't think anyone here is strongly arguing he do one or the other. I myself had two SSDs in RAID0 like a week ago. Now I don't, and I liked them both. But now I am getting faster boot times, faster benchmarks, and a statistically less chance of failure.
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post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVO PC View Post

Second, You cant do a ssd firmware update on a raid 0 array. You must first perform a full backup of your whole raid 0 array using Window7 disk image and save it on a separate HDD. Then break up your raid array. Boot to a diffent OS from yet another ssd or on separate computer, and perform a firmware update there on each of the ssds. After that, re-create your raid array, then use Windows 7 recovery boot feature to restore back to your original disk image. Bam done!

Thats wrong, You sure can update your FW while in any raid, I've done it hundreds of times on every brand without a single issue.
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post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGovernment View Post

Thats wrong, You sure can update your FW while in any raid, I've done it hundreds of times on every brand without a single issue.

What SSD are you using and what is your process? On my 840Pros I use Samsung's Magician software to do the FW update, and when in raid mode, the software does not even see the 840Pros.
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