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[Forbes] SimCity Meltdown: What Always-Online Says About Game Ownership In The Digital Age - Page 2

post #11 of 85
Forbes has been tearing Maxis/EA a new one. This is like the fifth article lambasting them in as many days. So good. thumb.gif
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post #12 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtStinger View Post

I wonder if the same resistance came with the addition of CD keys? Did people feel they didn't own it if they had to enter a key that they could lose, maybe not, but it might feel like you don't own the game when you're holding a CD that won't install. I wonder what level of resistance there was for encryption on discs to prevent copied discs from playing? I know I felt resistance on that one. I can't make 5 copies of the game I OWN so if one scratches I'll have another? What do you mean the copy won't play?!

Oh there was certainly well deserved resistance with each and everyone of these measures. You don't see it mentioned much now, but that's because people can get used to anything, and once you are ingrained to the terrible, the merely crappy seems like a gift.

The big difference I see between these earlier methods of DRM and what's becoming increasing prevalent today is the difference between de jure and de facto control.

I never gave a damn about manual codes, cd-keys, or disc copy protection because they were meaningless gestures. I printed or wrote down a sheet of codes, wrote the cd-key on the disc (or got a key gen), and copy protection was usually cracked by the time I got around to purchasing a game. Even if my ownership of the title was just as legally uncertain as it is now, the fact of the matter was that I could do whatever the hell I wanted with it, and there was nothing anyone could do to stop me.

Now, with always on-line DRM, this is changing; the publishers have some real control. Now that the legal and actual status are coming closer together, we really get to see how terrible the system is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtStinger View Post

mute

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post #13 of 85
I have wondered about this for a long time. It's great that services can ban people for say hacking and/or using the services malicously such as trying to hack others' accounts and what not. I see that as a good thing. However, we have such things as what happened to SimCity. Without the DRM, SimCity would have worked perfectly outside the box and no one would be angry. However, we must all ask what justifies SimCity to have the DRM on it? I made a comment in the thread announcing that SimCity would have DRM that it would be an awesome thing if integrated to bring peoples SimCities together in new and creative ways, but apparently the new and creative way was to cut everyone out of the equation due to the servers being either A. Faulty, or B. Not good enough, and in both of those choices, us as the consumers don't know who's to blame, so everyone blames EA. I believe that's a good thing because EA will have to deal with it as it does carry their name on the title somewhere, but also Maxis must take charge of the situation as well. Therefore, it will only be a little while before the issues get sorted, hopefully. In the end, we all know that we dislike needing an internet connection, but if you bought the game, nothing is stopping you from getting an alternate executable, if I'm not mistaken.
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post #14 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sm0keydaBear View Post

It's great that services can ban people for say hacking

I don't agree with this.

Personally, If I'm running a server, I want control of who stays and who goes, and of what constitutes acceptable behavior or not. Game wide enforcement of an arbitrary set of rules is a slap in the face to everyone who doesn't always share the vision of the developers and/or publishers.

I'm as against cheating as anyone, I just don't think it's the place of the publishers to define cheating or mandate game-wide rules and punishments regarding such things.
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post #15 of 85
I have two really simple rules when it comes to purchasing games:
#1. The only games where I will tolerate always-online are MMORPG's, because it is technically impossible to play those alone. MMO's are built with online player interaction (i.e. multiplayer) in mind, there is no "singleplayer".
#2. The only games where I will tolerate having to "log in" to an online service before I can play them is when I plan on investing most of my time in multiplayer, notable examples being Battlefield 3 and Crysis 3.

If I want to play a game but it breaks the above two rules.....I will resort to other means to playing them. Diablo 3 and Simcity 3 completely break rule #1.

Simple as that thumb.gif
Edited by Tippy - 3/10/13 at 9:38pm
post #16 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sm0keydaBear View Post

It's great that services can ban people for say hacking

I don't agree with this.

Personally, If I'm running a server, I want control of who stays and who goes, and of what constitutes acceptable behavior or not. Game wide enforcement of an arbitrary set of rules is a slap in the face to everyone who doesn't always share the vision of the developers and/or publishers.

I'm as against cheating as anyone, I just don't think it's the place of the publishers to define cheating or mandate game-wide rules and punishments regarding such things.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. You disagree with anyone who purchases a number of games and gets banned for cheating or the likes. Completely understandable argument, and I agree to a certain extent. I just feel that in online gaming, there is a huge rift between legitimate and illegitimate players. Some will cheat in online games, and I feel that those people deserve the banhammer if it involves them having an unfair advantage against their opponents. To me, that deserves the harshest punishment because there is absolutely not a reason for anyone to play with unfair advantages, unless they are somehow handicapped or disabled. The point I was trying to make with the statement of allowing services to decide who is cheating and who isn't, is from their perspective, they can see who has been playing fair, and who is playing unfair, unlike people like ourselves who play the games and try to play as fair as we possibly can because we don't like being pointed the finger at and saying "That's the person who was playing unfair!" because that is simply what I do not want to happen. Then again, I cannot also be the person who decides if that is what is happening.

We're entering a difficult time in terms of fairness and people playing with the rules. For an example, when I'm playing Black Ops II multiplayer and notice someone using an aimbot, it's very difficult for me as one person to take hold of the situation, even though it affects my situation as it ruins my KDR and my game as well. So how can we take care of this issue? To me, this is much alike the DRM of SimCity, except one key difference, and that's SimCity not having others be able to affect your game, so I can relate with those who are saying that the DRM for SimCity is blasphemous, because it really is.

Also, I understand your argument of being in control of what happens on your server and what does not, as that is the way I loved to play games in the past and actually wish we could bring that back, but the sad fact is that publishers will keep going at the throat for money, and we may never see that day again. Pretty much, we kind of have to take the slap to the face, and swallow our pride anyways... I do agree with what you mean, though.

One thing this guy wishes for is fair play on servers, so we don't need services such as Steam and the likes to need to dictate who gets banned for what.
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post #17 of 85
Most people don't seem to care about this DRM if it actually worked. WoW is a great example of a working DRM, as is D3. There is nothing preventing you from making your own simulator and hosting your own servers, but this service is far more practical hence why a viable alternative doesn't exist.
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post #18 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

WoW is a great example of a working DRM
What on earth? Do you know what an MMORPG is lol? Always-online isn't considered "DRM" for MMORPG's because those games genuinely need to be played online (massively multiplayer online role playing games), they revolve entirely around interacting with other people, you will see other players wandering around/interacting with content whether you like it or not, there is no option to play "singleplayer".

It's when singleplayer games like Diablo and SimCity demand always-online, that's when things stop making sense and can be classified as the worst kind of DRM.
Singleplayer offline games come in handy to people who have unstable connections, no internet access, or are traveling, or serving in the military, etc. How are they supposed to play such games? They can't lol. Not unless pirate/hacker groups crack the game, emulate servers, make it run offline, etc...
Edited by Tippy - 3/10/13 at 11:14pm
post #19 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post

What on earth? Do you know what an MMORPG is lol? Always-online isn't considered "DRM" for MMORPG's because those games genuinely need to be played online (massively multiplayer online role playing games), they revolve entirely around interacting with other people, you will see other players wandering around/interacting with content whether you like it or not, there is no option to play "singleplayer".

It's when singleplayer games like Diablo and SimCity demand always-online, that's when things stop making sense and can be classified as the worst kind of DRM.
Singleplayer offline games come in handy to people who have unstable connections, no internet access, or are traveling, or serving in the military, etc. How are they supposed to play such games? They can't lol. Not unless pirate/hacker groups crack the game, emulate servers, make it run offline, etc...

No kidding. The great thing is you probably couldn't have picked a better title than Sim City to have blow up in publisher's faces. A classic single player franchise as old as modern PC gaming gets, now tainted with this crap.
post #20 of 85
Steam/Origin don't even compare to this crap. And most of you don't even know what you are talking about, you own the content you just don't own the service. This applies to hardware as well, you buy phones but can't really use them unless you pay for the service. Only with Steam/Origin (don't know Origin, assuming) you can use the content even if the service is down. If Steam itself ever got shut down, you could always play your legally downloaded games with other clients (not talking about them). Yet your phone is a dead weight if you lose service, I think one is actually better than the other.

Not to mention, you use Steam/Origin for FREE, if you break their TOS/EULA and get banned.... I'm not going to say sorry, maybe you should have downloaded your games and used unofficial clients from the start. Then at least you aren't breaking laws, well... I don't know how legal it is to use other clients but I'm sure you could legally get away with it. So if you hate them that much, I'd look into that. Otherwise, stop complaining about evils that really don't exist and learn how things work. It might appear that you don't own the games but you download the code, you own it.

This is more on point to games that require you to be online, require some form of authentication before playing (Steam has Offline mode, which one could get into the habit of enabling after every game download and just block steam....). To that, I think it is a bit early. I don't see games doing well that require an online mode like SimCity. More so, especially SimCity. That's one of those games that people I know open casually, to play whenever. Or to use when they can't get online, waste time. Kind of take the point out of having a casual game you can play whenever if it requires internet. People don't like that, so look at the backlash.
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