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[Forbes] SimCity Meltdown: What Always-Online Says About Game Ownership In The Digital Age - Page 7

post #61 of 85
is it any good simcity?
post #62 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bboy500 View Post

When you bought a CD back in 2001-2002, you had to accept certain terms before you installed a game.

Part of those terms was that you do not own the product and are only given a licence to play the game.

Valve didn't change anything that wasn't already there. You never "owned" the disc or any part of the game, legally nothing changed from steam and CD's.

I was going to get into that, but decided not too. Though since you already did, I'll expand. First their was the game, unprotected and fun! Then we had a mix of DRMs used, simple cd keys to secu-rom/starforce/TAGS.... usually both were combined, but eventually we just went to complex keys (Protections failed, as emulation triumphed, even MS learned this with W8). The importance is, keys. Keys are your license, while not exactly true they are the same as what Steam is doing. Steam is essentially digital cloud keys, the only difference from then to now is you don't have a physical key to enter and play. You lose that key? Well, ever try and get a new key from a developer? You can get new discs.... Because they don't sell you the disc, the binary code, none of that. As soon as we started using DRM in the form of CD-Keys you stopped buying a "product" and started buying a license. This is nothing more than an extension of that, so I don't know why so many people are all that pissed off. I'd find it more likely, ESPECIALLY if you have kids, that you would lose your key before Steam or Valve go down.
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post #63 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

I was going to get into that, but decided not too. Though since you already did, I'll expand. First their was the game, unprotected and fun! Then we had a mix of DRMs used, simple cd keys to secu-rom/starforce/TAGS.... usually both were combined, but eventually we just went to complex keys (Protections failed, as emulation triumphed, even MS learned this with W8). The importance is, keys. Keys are your license, while not exactly true they are the same as what Steam is doing. Steam is essentially digital cloud keys, the only difference from then to now is you don't have a physical key to enter and play. You lose that key? Well, ever try and get a new key from a developer? You can get new discs.... Because they don't sell you the disc, the binary code, none of that. As soon as we started using DRM in the form of CD-Keys you stopped buying a "product" and started buying a license. This is nothing more than an extension of that, so I don't know why so many people are all that pissed off. I'd find it more likely, ESPECIALLY if you have kids, that you would lose your key before Steam or Valve go down.

I think the biggest thing is that simcity up until now has been a solo game, where as now even a solo game is more on the lines of setting up a private server you and your clan/friends play on in an FPS. Steam is an extension of the cdkey, because you can play solo games without being connected to the internet, this is the next step. The final step would be you get the simcity.exe (or just the ui) on your hdd the rest is on the server
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post #64 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post

I think the biggest thing is that simcity up until now has been a solo game, where as now even a solo game is more on the lines of setting up a private server you and your clan/friends play on in an FPS. Steam is an extension of the cdkey, because you can play solo games without being connected to the internet, this is the next step. The final step would be you get the simcity.exe (or just the ui) on your hdd the rest is on the server

Correct sir! I won't argue with that. However I don't think this will be the next step, following this outrage I doubt devs will like this nearly as much. If this wasn't an issue, you wouldn't see Amazon stop selling a product. That speaks very loudly, a vendor basically said they won't shelf a product because the consumer has spoken. While they can't change SimCity they can re-think about doing this type of move again.

I think the biggest outrage is about no more solo single player. That is what was best about SimCity. In my earlier post I talked about how many people I know play this casually, a lot of the time when other options are out. I know people who used to run it on their laptops for times when they had no internet and nothing to do. This changed and a lot of those customers are probably the angry ones. SimCity isn't exactly a game made for the hardcore gamer, which it doesn't need to be. It's an all around fun game to waste time, I enjoyed the crap out of the older versions. I just don't enjoy them as much, still appreciate them and think they are good games. I'd even recommend somebody buying it, which I don't advocate buying games often. I find many are... Well after years of gaming, you start to see too many similarities in different games. Especially in the same genera, FPS and RPGs have become stale. MMORPG/MMOFPS is a new thing though. Action Adventure games can push out some great stuff, as well as a lot of clones.

I could go on and on but I won't, those that get my point have probably gamed quite a while too. I stick with decent games that I can enjoy for a while. I have friends with libraries of "great games", some of them they haven't played and never will. Some they played and never played again, I don't think those are worth $60. IMO I can buy beer for a couple months at that and play a bunch of older games drunk and be just as "content" with it. I know crappy example. I could also just not buy a game and play one of my games that are great for wasting time. I still play CS:S, one of the best purchases I've ever done. How many can say they can still play a game 9 years old for hours on end, every day, like it's an amazing thing? Not many, and not many games stand up to that type of reputation. I just might have too high a standard for good games, who knows.
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post #65 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by scyy View Post

This, you can actually launch a very large number of games without steam running just by launching the exe from the root folders.

I was just about to ask if people knew about this. Pretty much all of the games I bought through Steam just download the full game to your drive. You can even go ahead and remove Steam from your computer completely and keep playing them.

That said, I don't have a huge amount of games. I can imagine people with lots of Steam required games are at least a little worried about Steam shutting down. Me? I don't think I would even notice for months.
    
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post #66 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bboy500 View Post

When you bought a CD back in 2001-2002, you had to accept certain terms before you installed a game.

Part of those terms was that you do not own the product and are only given a licence to play the game.

Valve didn't change anything that wasn't already there. You never "owned" the disc or any part of the game, legally nothing changed from steam and CD's.

You're not reading what I wrote properly.

It has changed, very much.

Before WE were given the license to our game once we purchased it.

Now VALVE/EA/UBI are given the license to our game once we purchase it.


We are not given anything anymore. We sign (or tick/check) user agreements with Valve/EA/Ubi that allow us to access those licenses, because those licenses are held in a "store room" (or a library/server/account) owned by THEM.

THEY are holding the license, not you. You access the license that was given to their service when you login to their service.

You don't own the hardware that runs their service. You don't own the software that runs their service. You don't own the network that runs their service and they (legally or not) assert that they are not under obligation to continue the service you use to access "your" licenses.

You said "you are only given a license", but all practicalities indicate somebody or something else (i.e. THEIR account that they allow you to use) that actually received the rights.
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post #67 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

You're not reading what I wrote properly.

It has changed, very much.

Before WE were given the license to our game once we purchased it.

Now VALVE/EA/UBI are given the license to our game once we purchase it.


We are not given anything anymore. We sign (or tick/check) user agreements with Valve/EA/Ubi that allow us to access those licenses, because those licenses are held in a "store room" (or a library/server/account) owned by THEM.

THEY are holding the license, not you. You access the license that was given to their service when you login to their service.

You don't own the hardware that runs their service. You don't own the software that runs their service. You don't own the network that runs their service and they (legally or not) assert that they are not under obligation to continue the service you use to access "your" licenses.

You said "you are only given a license", but all practicalities indicate somebody or something else (i.e. THEIR account that they allow you to use) that actually received the rights.

That's false, if that were true offline mode wouldn't exist. You get the license, it's part of the binary blob in your steam folder. I believe clientregistry.blob? That holds all account info locally if I'm not mistaken. In order to get that license downloaded, you do have to get on their service. However with the invention of offline mode, you do not require the service to run. So yeah, you get a license but it's not the traditional sense.
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post #68 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

snip..


Unfortunatly after playing wow to many years my reactions for play FPS have gone, I agree that some of the old games have still got the play me factor that some newer ones don't, The problem with games like simcity,civilization is after a while you go through the motions you know what works. Even the mmo's follow along the same wow set piece, they may have different names and the abilities renamed changed slightly but in reality it's just the same game with different graphics, and the same goes for FPS

P's talking of old but play me again games abe's oddysee
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post #69 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post

Unfortunatly after playing wow to many years my reactions for play FPS have gone, I agree that some of the old games have still got the play me factor that some newer ones don't, The problem with games like simcity,civilization is after a while you go through the motions you know what works. Even the mmo's follow along the same wow set piece, they may have different names and the abilities renamed changed slightly but in reality it's just the same game with different graphics, and the same goes for FPS

P's talking of old but play me again games abe's oddysee

Pretty much in accordance. I feel the same with FPS games, most go through the motions. So if I'm going to do that, why do I need to get new fancy motions. Their are games that are great, that come out today. Just not as often. Most of my console days as a child were spent renting games, looking back now that was probably the best thing ever. Too many games don't have enough of a difference to stick out. I like God of War but other games of that platform? Dodge and attack, dodge and attack, use magic, dodge and attach, special ability. Motions, all in the same. What made God of War stick out? The plot, the story, how they integrate everything into the game play very well. It was such a good game, I know people (including myself) who bought a PS3 and mainly got it for that game. I'd pay more than 60 for it, that's for sure.

It's also why when Bulletstorm came out and everybody was "awed", I looked at it and sneezed. I think my snot looked better. It might have had some nice graphical features but the game play was stale as all hell. I thought a mod team could have done better, I've seen better playing mods. After all, CS was originally a mod. Heck, even Q3 had Rocket Arena, which didn't change much but it ended up changing everything.

Ahh anyways, we could probably talk hours or days about game genera and crappy games. Good to see I'm not the only one who notices this, every time I see a post pop up about a game that is "good" and everyone is in awe I fight the urge to get on a box and slam the crap out of the game. It's a tough urge sometimes. =P
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post #70 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biorganic View Post

This seems to be happening more often of late. Are developers getting more lazy or what?

Yes, they are. The other problem is that there are so many gaming companies compared to even 10 years ago that the market is consumed with SECOND TIER and THIRD TIER devs. Remember, the guys working at all of the studios that made some of the best games ever got swallowed up by big congolmerates and then somehow "laid off."

There are so many problems with the gaming industry on the developmental side its not even funny. Lazy is just one of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Pretty much in accordance. I feel the same with FPS games, most go through the motions. So if I'm going to do that, why do I need to get new fancy motions. Their are games that are great, that come out today. Just not as often. Most of my console days as a child were spent renting games, looking back now that was probably the best thing ever. Too many games don't have enough of a difference to stick out. I like God of War but other games of that platform? Dodge and attack, dodge and attack, use magic, dodge and attach, special ability. Motions, all in the same. What made God of War stick out? The plot, the story, how they integrate everything into the game play very well. It was such a good game, I know people (including myself) who bought a PS3 and mainly got it for that game. I'd pay more than 60 for it, that's for sure.

It's also why when Bulletstorm came out and everybody was "awed", I looked at it and sneezed. I think my snot looked better. It might have had some nice graphical features but the game play was stale as all hell. I thought a mod team could have done better, I've seen better playing mods. After all, CS was originally a mod. Heck, even Q3 had Rocket Arena, which didn't change much but it ended up changing everything.

Ahh anyways, we could probably talk hours or days about game genera and crappy games. Good to see I'm not the only one who notices this, every time I see a post pop up about a game that is "good" and everyone is in awe I fight the urge to get on a box and slam the crap out of the game. It's a tough urge sometimes. =P

The Marketing is better, especially with the internet. In the old days (pre-high speed think 1995) Word spread by mouth mostly. Good games got popular and bad games got thrown in the trash.
 
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