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[Ars] Firefox is out of the iOS game until Apple changes its ways - Page 10

post #91 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

Security hole, security issue; poe-tay-toe, poe-tah-toe. It doesn't all of a sudden manufacture a security flaw in the code... Because, get this - if Apple allows UIWebView to use Nitro, then any security flaw found would also apply to Safari on mobile, meaning that Nitro must FIRST be secure to be used in Safari. Assuming that it is, a security flaw would not just all of a sudden make its way into UIWebView apps (if they were allowed to use Nitro).

Sure it reduces the attack surface, but no flaw in Nitro with Safari == no flaw in UIWebView with Nitro support.
Reading it back it isn't entirely clear what I mean by security hole and security issue but I do mean different things by them: the first, something exploitable, the second an actual in-place threat.

About Nitro, that's correct. The biggest problem with UIWebView using Nitro 2 is not an external threat, but an internal one. Anyone who wanted to exploit iOS now has the perfect gateway: UIWebView. Make any app, chuck a UIWebView on it, and voila. Hackaway!
Quote:
That's fine, the anti-trust was just my opinion. I would agree, Mozilla would need to keep it secure, and they could do a good a job as Apple could.
They could, but would they? Apple's priority is security. Would Mozilla always choose utmost security over better performance? The kind of example I'm thinking of is the switch from Safari's Nitro engine to the Nitro 2 engine. The former was still code signed, but the latter dumped code signing for improved performance with the JIT debugger. If another scenario presented itself which was similar in nature, Apple has no control over what Mozilla does. If that makes sense...
Quote:
Their image isn't perfect... Apology accepted anyway!
I wasn't saying they were, I was saying they think they are.
Quote:
Fair point actually, I did mean that I didn't agree with this whole thing, but I quoted your post. Why, I don't know, but there's no going back for me now!
Ah, I see.
Quote:
As a developer, I understand wholly. Security issues on Apple are handled by Apple. Security issues with Mozilla would be handled by... you guessed it, Mozilla. What's the difference? Apple pushes an update, Mozilla pushes an update. Same deal.
See my point above about choosing utmost security over better performance and I think you'll understand where I'm coming from.
Quote:
Fair enough but I still think big name browsers should be allowed.
I think the best case scenario is Apple (securely) opening up Nitro 2 for use in UIWebView. That would mean FireFox, Chrome and so forth would all be as snappy as Safari.
Quote:
Yes you did.

I'll end my discussion with this quote from post #86 (by you):
Quote:
Apple has an image to maintain, and that is that iOS is completely secure.

You twice said above that you never said iOS is completely secure, however you did. In that post. Right there.
Ah you misunderstand. I'm not saying iOS is completely secure, I'm saying that the image Apple is trying to maintain is that iOS is completely secure -- I.E., they're trying to maintain the image that iOS is completely secure. That was never a statement of my opinion on the matter.
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post #92 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Reading it back it isn't entirely clear what I mean by security hole and security issue but I do mean different things by them: the first, something exploitable, the second an actual in-place threat.

That makes enough sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

About Nitro, that's correct. The biggest problem with UIWebView using Nitro 2 is not an external threat, but an internal one. Anyone who wanted to exploit iOS now has the perfect gateway: UIWebView. Make any app, chuck a UIWebView on it, and voila. Hackaway!

And all Apple has to do is run apps through a ceritfication kit and block any new UIWebView apps until the hole is patched. No gateway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

They could, but would they? Apple's priority is security. Would Mozilla always choose utmost security over better performance? The kind of example I'm thinking of is the switch from Safari's Nitro engine to the Nitro 2 engine. The former was still code signed, but the latter dumped code signing for improved performance with the JIT debugger. If another scenario presented itself which was similar in nature, Apple has no control over what Mozilla does. If that makes sense...

I'd hope they would. Performance doesn't neccesarily mean not scure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

I wasn't saying they were, I was saying they think they are.

That's even worse on Apples part, it makes them seem ignorant and arrogant if you portray them like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post


Ah, I see.
See my point above about choosing utmost security over better performance and I think you'll understand where I'm coming from.
I think the best case scenario is Apple (securely) opening up Nitro 2 for use in UIWebView. That would mean FireFox, Chrome and so forth would all be as snappy as Safari.

I know personally I would always put security as priority over performance. Is there any evidence to suggest that Mozilla would not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Ah you misunderstand. I'm not saying iOS is completely secure, I'm saying that the image Apple is trying to maintain is that iOS is completely secure -- I.E., they're trying to maintain the image that iOS is completely secure. That was never a statement of my opinion on the matter.

So basically they are lying. Good job. Even you can't say they aren't being deceitful it they are portrayed by you as that, because you said a couple posts ago that you know no OS is or can be completely secure.
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post #93 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

And all Apple has to do is run apps through a ceritfication kit and block any new UIWebView apps until the hole is patched. No gateway.
But that would mean someone has successfully attacked iOS and it would have been noticed. Also I don't think you can stop people from exploiting an iOS device if they have the ability to run unsigned code through the browser -- the amount of exploits possible would be enormous, no?
Quote:
I'd hope they would. Performance doesn't neccesarily mean not scure.
I'm not saying that. Just in the instance that it is less secure to go for more performance.
Quote:
That's even worse on Apples part, it makes them seem ignorant and arrogant if you portray them like that.
I'm pretty sure that's the image they try to maintain. I think anyone you asked would say that.
Quote:
I know personally I would always put security as priority over performance. Is there any evidence to suggest that Mozilla would not?
I'm the same. No, but what if it's simply "over the top" security in comparison to performance. E.G., something that is incredibly unlikely to happen, would they overlook it? I don't think Apple would, because they care most about iOS maintaining that perfect image, but Mozilla doesn't care about that -- they care about having the best browser. (Again not suggesting that they'd choose performance over glaring or even regular security issues, but for the obscure and incredibly unlikely security issues.)
Quote:
So basically they are lying. Good job.
Good job?
Quote:
Even you can't say they aren't being deceitful it they are portrayed by you as that, because you said a couple posts ago that you know no OS is or can be completely secure.
Is that a dare? wink.gif

Haha but no really. That's how they portray themselves. I think everyone would think that. I'm not sure they'll ever outright say "We're 100% immune", but I think they'll word their way around it.
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post #94 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazio93 View Post

chrome for iOS + browserchooser plugin for jailbroken devices smile.gif

don't forget nitrous
Edited by Z Overlord - 3/18/13 at 11:01pm
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post #95 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by chip94 View Post

I honestly don't care whether they come out with a browser or not because I feel safari does a pretty good job on iOS.

whether you feel that way or not, how can apple get away with not offering more choice when microsoft just got fined nearly three quarters of a billion for not offering other options along with their operating system?

bit of a double standard, hmmm?
post #96 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by eithris View Post

whether you feel that way or not, how can apple get away with not offering more choice when microsoft just got fined nearly three quarters of a billion for not offering other options along with their operating system?

bit of a double standard, hmmm?

I think it has something to do with the fact that removing IE from Windows is effectively impossible, while it is feasible to remove Safari from OSX.
    
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post #97 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

Who cares FF sucks anyways.

Also, don't get why all the apple hate. Yea their business tactics are evilish, but if you thing android devices are any better or more ethical your an idiot.

As a recent convert to apple, I think someone should get on google for making such a garbage OS. I got tired of constant bugs and having to take my battery out.

iOS devices = overpriced but hella stable

Android devices = unstable but decently priced

Should've got a better device. My SGS3's only problems are my modding smile.gif The stock software works fine, no hangups or anything (that said, I'm talking stock Samsung, not this carrier specific, out of date crap).
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post #98 of 105
It drives me crazy how all links open in Safari by default. I use Chrome for everything that I can.
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post #99 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

confused.gifconfused.gifconfused.gifconfused.gifkookoo.gif

I disagree, deranged or kookoo is saying whatever you feel as long as you say, "Just saying" at the end it is okay. So you can basically call someone's mother a whore as long as you say just saying, meaning I am calling your mother a whore, but I am not offending you.
Edited by Frankrizzo - 3/19/13 at 12:04pm
post #100 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post

It drives me crazy how all links open in Safari by default. I use Chrome for everything that I can.

Browserchooser from Cydia store can change the default browser to:
-Chrome
-Opera Mini
-iCab Mobile
-Dolphin Browser
-Atomic Browser
-Diigo Browser
-iLunascape Browser
-MammothIV Browser
-Puffin Browser
-Mercury Browser
-Crux Browser

Which means your links will open in whichever browser is assigned to default in Browserchooser.
Free tweak also.

The problem with iPhone devices consists of an idiotic userbase that is too stupid to figure out how to actually customize to their liking.

There is FAR FAR FAR more customization in JB ios than on Android phones, and this is coming from someone who has the entire Samsung Galaxy line on custom ROM's. In fact the only thing you can't do on iphone is overclock which is ok because the os actually runs extremely smooth and snappy, paired with Accelerator+ tweak which shortens animations on demand.
Edited by Scorpion667 - 3/20/13 at 10:57am
    
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