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2600K 4.5 1.344,1.352,1.360 NH-D14 - Page 4

post #31 of 52
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Yeah so many guys,posts,threads tell that software voltage readers were not that reliable.
Is it a problem software side? or in the SENSOR(is that called SuperIO) side in the mobo?
Now AI Suite II and AIDA64 are not monitoring the mobo temps. They are the VRMs right? Did the sensor failed or what. I am still on 4.5.
Now I don't have any idea on my mobo temps. Yesterday that did not happen.
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post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by RushFudge View Post

Yeah so many guys,posts,threads tell that software voltage readers were not that reliable.
Is it a problem software side? or in the SENSOR(is that called SuperIO) side in the mobo?
Now AI Suite II and AIDA64 are not monitoring the mobo temps. They are the VRMs right? Did the sensor failed or what. I am still on 4.5.
Now I don't have any idea on my mobo temps. Yesterday that did not happen.

 

I don't know what the motherboard temps are.  I've only ever paid attention to the CPU's core temps, but I realize that this isn't exactly the smartest thing to do if I can see other temps and actually know what they are.

 

Anyway, I don't know what could be causing this unless it's just due to instability.

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post #33 of 52
Use hwinfo. much better program, hwmonitor has issues.

Reducing voltage, any voltage, is always a good thing. You always want the lowest voltage on everything if possible. The issue is that for most people, it's not worth the time and effort to try to figure out the lowest IMC or PLL voltage - they don't really affect your overclock stability (or very slightly, ie you can usually do 1.5PLL on 4.5-4.6ghz but higher overclocks, like 4.8+ generally need like 1.6+ i think). I mean we are talking reducing your PLL voltage from stock 1.8 to 1.5, 1.6 of maybe 2-3*C lower core temps.

Overclocking is a time and effort and knowledge thing, the more you play around, the more reward there is. It's just that finding the lowest vcore might be a 10*C drop and a stable high overclock, while changing PLL voltage is 3*C best case scenario and you really need to do a ton of testing to confirm that (ie run 24 hour prime95 test on stock pll, then reduce is, test again, over and over on a very low voltage and slightly raising until you finally pass 24+ hours).

There's really no need to mess with PLL, VTT, or IMC voltages. For overclocking, just really set Enable PLL Overvoltage (for 4.6ghz+, if you want you can even test that, then try again with it disabled and see if you are stable as it'll reduce temps, but generally you really need it on for stability on overclocks, especially higher overclocks), set your LLC to the 2nd highest setting, and then crank up frequency and voltage as necessary (using offset voltage for 24/7 overclocks), and keep temps below 95*C and voltage below 1.6v.

If you want, you can try reducing PLL voltage, VTT/IMC voltage (ie you should reduce them together, unless you are okay with messing with on their own and spending a TON of time testing for not even a difference of 1*C cooler), but the returns on playing with such settings really has very little impact (less than 6*C difference from stock to extremely low on all of them, really). It's up to you how much time and effort you can to put into your overclock and voltages.

Like I could have left well enough alone, and hit 5ghz@1.51v. But I tested further, and got it down to 1.499. I tested my LLC settings with a multimeter, I literally tested for 24 hours on High, Turbo, Extreme (top 3 settings) to see the lowest vcore necessary for all 3 (it was pretty clear that high and turbo required much more voltage, they'd crash instantly on what turbo could at least do 10 minutes of testing) so that was a bunch of testing to confirm what is already stated in every guide, I set my PLL, VTT, and IMC voltages as low as they could go but I maybe got a 3*C temp drop from 91*C max to 87*C max (hey, no longer in the 90s, that's nice). My overclock is no different but I run a few degrees cooler and slightly less voltage after spending about 2-3 weeks of time more on fine tuning my overclock.

If you really want to get into the land of diminishing returns, ram timings. Set each timing to as low as you can get it, each one. There's been very, very few reports of people saying lower pll voltage got them stable, but who knows what was going on there. Reduced voltages will never hurt, they only help. It's just a matter of do you want to spend the time messing with something that really doesn't matter in the end. Personally, I did, as I'll be using this system for a long time and I enjoy that kind of tedious overclocking stuff, I have a lot of pride in how low I got everything and how exact my overclock is, but not everyone else has that patience. Some people like to actually play games on their computer.
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post #34 of 52

For Sandy Bridge on P67 and Z68 , lowering the CPU PLL Voltage can allow you to get away with using a lower core voltage.

 

For Sandy Bridge on P67 and Z68, Internal PLL Overvoltage is generally not needed until around 4.8 GHz and higher.  I have mine disabled at 4.7 GHz and my system is perfectly stable.  By "perfectly", I literally mean just that:  it's so stable, it's almost boring.  One nice thing I enjoy with Internal PLL Overvoltage disabled is my POST time is about 2-3 seconds shorter.

 

The problem with setting such a high Load-Line Calibration is the Voltage Regulator Module gets hotter.  This has the potential to make it harder to achieve stability.  I'm using a Medium LLC with no problems.  I'm also using an Offset, and using Medium is allowing me to keep C3 and C6 enabled with no problems.  Using Ultra High results idle lock-ups and BSODs until I disable C3 and C6.  With C3 and C6 enabled, I enjoy a ~15W reduction in my idle power consumption.

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post #35 of 52
The problem of higher LLC isn't necessarily your VRM getting hotter (although it will), it's that it feeds higher voltages.

LLC works to 'smooth' the vdroop you get, how much your voltage dips in the wavy up/down voltages always do (it's just electronics, your voltage is NEVER stable at a single voltage, despite your software saying so and how good your mobo and psu is, your motherboard actually just reports an average). However the less droop you have, the higher of a peak you have. So essentially LLC just raises your vcore, but it works to make your voltage more stable at the cost of increased voltage (+.27v Extreme/1.47v is about equal to +.34/1.54 High, about an additional .6v+ for Extreme over High LLC basically).

vDroop also keeps your CPU a lot cooler, by allowing it to dip much further, your chip stays very cool as the voltage can fluctuate a wide range. With higher LLC, your vcore is higher so therefore just that in and of itself is hotter, but forcing the voltage to run a more constant, higher voltage rather than naturally going up and down as necessary, really turns up the amount of voltage being fed to your chip and the heat. So even with similar vcore settings one LLC vs another, your peak and bottom voltages on a higher llc setting is much higher.

Higher voltages simply means higher voltages having to be processed by your VRM, meaning hotter VRMs. It's not so much LLC strains your VRM, but higher voltages - higher vcore strains the vcore VRM, higher vdimm strains the RAM VRM, etc. If you got a good VRM this isn't an issue, but on lower end boards your VRM's temps can be more of a limiting factor than your CPU temps. I'd say a 4+1 mediocre quality phase will struggle with higher voltages, ~1.35vcore (regardless of chip, it's 1.5v is 1.5v). 3+1 will struggle with anything above 1.3, really.

Like on my msi z77a-g41 and biostar a770e3 am3, VRM temps approached the max of low quality mosfets around 90*C way before my CPU temps became a concern. Good boards will have sensors for your VRM temps, not just for info but it's also used by the vrm computer to best allocate voltage amongst the phases, but it's always a good idea to place thermal diodes on your VRMs, especially if your board is so low quality that it doesn't tell you VRM temps.

I mean my Z77X-UD5H, I maxed out all the PWM and VRM settings, yet I never go above 60*C even with 1.55vcore. While 1.35v on my Z77A-G41 would push temps above 90*C on the VRM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB0dm2-nfpc

Now obviously asrock fudges voltages badly and asrock boards on z77 are questionable quality, but even high quality boards follow a very similar to pattern to the one in this video where voltages may be rising yet in software is shows no rise at all (the disparity between software read-out and DMM read-out has nothing to do with VRM quality, and everything to do with simply the equation the motherboard manufacturer uses to report voltage via software, which they often fudge so it seems like a certain motherboard is awesome because it require less vcore for the same overclock when in reality it uses the same).

VRM really shouldn't affect stability unless your VRM is getting hot (VRM performance will degrade at higher temps, how bad it degrades though depends on how bad the VRM is, better quality VRM can handle more heat, stays cooler, and has a higher max temp).

Be aware that the nuances of LLC on vcore will generally not be picked up by software voltage readings. It's very likely that even when your software is telling you your voltage is dropping a bit, that it's actually rising:
Quote:
This has the potential to make it harder to achieve stability. I'm using a Medium LLC with no problems. I'm also using an Offset, and using Medium is allowing me to keep C3 and C6 enabled with no problems. Using Ultra High results idle lock-ups and BSODs until I disable C3 and C6. With C3 and C6 enabled, I enjoy a ~15W reduction in my idle power consumption.

Unless you have a digital multimeter to tell you what your voltage truly is and you have stability tested to see what's the lowest voltage setting you can be stable on each LLC setting, I strongly recommend you just stick with the LLC setting recommended by every single person and guide and by people who have actually used a Digital multimeter and taken the time to see which LLC setting is best and stability tested to see which resulted in the lowest true voltage needed.

Like with High LLC, it appears I need 1.54v for 5ghz to be stable but in reality it's less than that, while Extreme LLC I can be stable on just 1.45v put in but in reality it's feeding my system 1.53v.

With any standard overclock, ie 4.5-5.1ghz, you should really be using Turbo LLC unless you used a DMM yourself to verify another setting is better. If Ultra high causes issues for you, that's probably because you aren't using enough voltage to go along with it. Your Vcore = VID + Offset + LLC. Just as increasing your offset increases vcore, changing your LLC will increase vcore too.

I mean you would be one in a million if you really were stable on less voltage on a lower LLC than the 2nd highest.

And where do you get the power consumption number? Software power read-outs are never accurate.
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post #36 of 52

I never said that I'm using a lower core voltage with Medium LLC.  In fact, I changed my Offset so that my idle and load voltages read ("red") the same as they did before (by CPU-Z) with Ultra High.  Ultra High for RushFudge and me is Turbo for you.  You have Ivy on Z77, and we have Sandy on P67 and Z68 (he has Z68).

 

I'm using a Kill A Watt.  My idle wattage as reported by the Kill A Watt is about 15W less +/- 2W with C3 and C6 enabled.

 

Therefore, I will continue using Medium LLC.

 

By the way, I haven't seen any guides for Ivy Bridge on Z77 that recommend anything higher than Medium and High (25-50%) LLC.  Although, I haven't looked at more than a couple either.

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Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate Basic, but premium round 
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post #37 of 52
Thread Starter 
Ok using HWinfo64 now, stupid HW. biggrin.gif
I am now using High LLC 3rd highest, as of now I did not do stability tests because I am using the unit for thesis but after these I really want to be active on fine tuning my overclock.
I did buy my rig a year ago, March 12 2012 if i can recall correctly. I bought a K processor, an asus motherboard that I knew was good.(at that time i am not that knowledgeable on hardware, all i know was about ghz, temps.. well cpu temp, not the core temps, i am basically looking for the cpu temp, not the core temp of the cpu, and i dont know about the phase design, the vrms, the voltages for my own sake, i bought a 750W PSU with the idea of never upgrading or adding a graphics card to my rig coz i am content with my 560 and i cant afford to upgrade)

So at least I picked good components! Except my ASUS gtx 560 dc, i good have picked the DCII version but i lack the kaching to buy it.

well getting too off topic there,
my volttage now is hovering between 1.328,1.336,1.344, using high llc , 3rd highest setting for asus bios.
on ultra high, 2nd highest llc,, 1.344,1.352,1.360 as stated in my title, this setting with ultra high was somehow tested a lil bit, 3 hrs+ of prime blend.
i would be happy if this high LLC setting will achieve stability after 24hrs of prime blend.
but others say even with 24hrs of prime stability
they fail in real world scenarios like using applications. but how?

does my asus p8z68-v/gen3 12+4 phase design good? yeah i know rog boards have the best VRMs in all of ASUS's line of mobo, but is mine good too in terms of performance and reliability?(haha intel!)

i really appreciate those who answered to this thread, after our defense on march 16, gmt+8, i will be more active here. i want to learn more from you all, twocables, belial(even tho Belial i think is a demon LOL, not you the name!) and others.

my evidence that i really want to learn is that after a year, of running my 2600k in its mighty stock form, i bought an nh d14! hahaha, after wasting this cpu's true potential for a year at last i will be using it now.

i want to know many things about hard ware, so please keep your conversation so that i can learn more from it.
ALAS! Thank you, and talk to you again later!
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Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GiB Noctua Nh-D14 Windows 8.1(former 7 Ultimate x64) LG IPS237L 
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Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GiB Noctua Nh-D14 Windows 8.1(former 7 Ultimate x64) LG IPS237L 
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post #38 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by RushFudge View Post

Ok using HWinfo64 now, stupid HW. biggrin.gif
I am now using High LLC 3rd highest, as of now I did not do stability tests because I am using the unit for thesis but after these I really want to be active on fine tuning my overclock.
I did buy my rig a year ago, March 12 2012 if i can recall correctly. I bought a K processor, an asus motherboard that I knew was good.(at that time i am not that knowledgeable on hardware, all i know was about ghz, temps.. well cpu temp, not the core temps, i am basically looking for the cpu temp, not the core temp of the cpu, and i dont know about the phase design, the vrms, the voltages for my own sake, i bought a 750W PSU with the idea of never upgrading or adding a graphics card to my rig coz i am content with my 560 and i cant afford to upgrade)

So at least I picked good components! Except my ASUS gtx 560 dc, i good have picked the DCII version but i lack the kaching to buy it.

well getting too off topic there,
my volttage now is hovering between 1.328,1.336,1.344, using high llc , 3rd highest setting for asus bios.
on ultra high, 2nd highest llc,, 1.344,1.352,1.360 as stated in my title, this setting with ultra high was somehow tested a lil bit, 3 hrs+ of prime blend.
i would be happy if this high LLC setting will achieve stability after 24hrs of prime blend.
but others say even with 24hrs of prime stability
they fail in real world scenarios like using applications. but how?

 

I'm not sure how to explain it, but even so, I recommend making sure you test with the Custom Blend test so that you can tell Prime95 to use about 90% of your memory.  Also, be sure you're using v27.7 build 2 at the minimum because this is the first version to take advantage of the AVX instruction set.  Windows 7 SP1 is also required because SP1 introduces the ability for software to use the AVX instruction set.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RushFudge View Post

does my asus p8z68-v/gen3 12+4 phase design good? yeah i know rog boards have the best VRMs in all of ASUS's line of mobo, but is mine good too in terms of performance and reliability?(haha intel!)

 

For the kind of overclocking you're trying to do, it's even a little bit overkill.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RushFudge View Post

i really appreciate those who answered to this thread, after our defense on march 16, gmt+8, i will be more active here. i want to learn more from you all, twocables, belial(even tho Belial i think is a demon LOL, not you the name!) and others.

my evidence that i really want to learn is that after a year, of running my 2600k in its mighty stock form, i bought an nh d14! hahaha, after wasting this cpu's true potential for a year at last i will be using it now.

i want to know many things about hard ware, so please keep your conversation so that i can learn more from it.
ALAS! Thank you, and talk to you again later!

 

Thank you for your enthusiasm!  :)  It's a privilege to be able to help!

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Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (OS) 3 TB Toshiba P300 (storage) Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner 
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Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate Basic, but premium round 
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post #39 of 52
Thread Starter 
Well it's a really good thing you are helping, but it is much better for me because I am getting help from you and others.

Yeah I typed "but only using like 65% of my RAM bcoz I need some of it", and then I backspaced haha.
If I do custom for 90% RAM, what FFTs should I use, 1344 and 1792? or the preset values?

Yeah the power phase design is a lil bit overkill for @4.5, but it's made up of good materials right?
The thing is, I want to exceed 4.5, I want to hit at least 4.7 but then with my goal comes the thought of safety first.
I want to have this processor for about 3 years more(I already used it for a year on stock settings) and I don't know if it will be able to reach that another 3 years with 1.38v powering it.

I ran dxdiag, it shows Win 7 Ultimate 64bit... that means NO SP1? right? hahaha.
It's updatable thru Win updates right? I thought I saw it then i hid it.
Butt then AIDA64 says Service Pack 1.
HWInfo64 says SP1 too.
Might as well believe those two.

Well next week I will be asking much more and in detail because I am gonna stress this boy up.
I hope I can buy a Kill A Watt too here. haha.

EDIT:
oh and I am using 26.6 build 3 of Prime95, I will download the latest. Latest the best?
Edited by RushFudge - 3/14/13 at 3:55am
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post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by RushFudge View Post

Well it's a really good thing you are helping, but it is much better for me because I am getting help from you and others.

Yeah I typed "but only using like 65% of my RAM bcoz I need some of it", and then I backspaced haha.
If I do custom for 90% RAM, what FFTs should I use, 1344 and 1792? or the preset values?

 

Oh, definitely Blend.  So what you do is just click Custom and then put in what would be about 90% of your memory.  The way I see it is, the only time you should do the 1792 K and 1344 K FFTs are when you know your system is failing them.  This is the same for any FFT size, but these are the usual ones that fail for Sandy Bridge if any of them fail.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RushFudge View Post

Yeah the power phase design is a lil bit overkill for @4.5, but it's made up of good materials right?

 

Yeah, these are nice motherboards!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RushFudge View Post

The thing is, I want to exceed 4.5, I want to hit at least 4.7 but then with my goal comes the thought of safety first.
I want to have this processor for about 3 years more(I already used it for a year on stock settings) and I don't know if it will be able to reach that another 3 years with 1.38v powering it.

 

It'll last, even with that voltage.  The only real danger would be if you had the CPU under absolutely full load 24/7 for the next year or so.  The it might degrade a bit to the point where it might require you to increase the voltage in order to keep it stable.  ;)  So yeah, these CPUs are tough.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RushFudge View Post

I ran dxdiag, it shows Win 7 Ultimate 64bit... that means NO SP1? right? hahaha.
It's updatable thru Win updates right? I thought I saw it then i hid it.
Butt then AIDA64 says Service Pack 1.
HWInfo64 says SP1 too.
Might as well believe those two.

 

Use "winver".  That is, open the Start Menu, type winver, and press Enter.  Or put it in the "Run..." command box and press Enter.

 

You can also see it in the System page in the Control Panel.  The fastest way to get there is by pressing Windows Key + Pause/Break on your keyboard.  Or you can right-click My Computer and choose Properties.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RushFudge View Post

Well next week I will be asking much more and in detail because I am gonna stress this boy up.
I hope I can buy a Kill A Watt too here. haha.

 

If you buy one, remember that all you should plug into it is your PSU.  Then you multiply any value you see by the approximate supposed efficiency of it such as 85% or 90%.  So if you see 350W, then you'd multiply 350 by .85 for 85% efficiency, and .90 for 90%.  That would be what your system is pulling from the PSU (approximately).

 

So yeah, this is good fun.  :)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RushFudge View Post

EDIT:
oh and I am using 26.6 build 3 of Prime95, I will download the latest. Latest the best?

 

27.7 build 2 is the minimum because it's the first version that takes advantage of the AVX instruction set.  By not taking advantage of it, the whole CPU isn't being stressed.

 

They have 27.9 out right now:  http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/default.php

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It's a computer!
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (OS) 3 TB Toshiba P300 (storage) Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate Basic, but premium round 
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