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[EuroGamer] SimCity modded so it can be played offline indefinitely - Page 8

post #71 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

I'm laughing at how your entire argument is semantics and yet I'm talking about a different thing if I use semantics. You do realize this, right?

However, the quote you keep going back to:
Quote:
"With the way that the game works, we offload a significant amount of the calculations to our servers so that the computations are off the local PCs and are moved into the cloud. It wouldn't be possible to make the game offline without a significant amount of engineering work by our team."
Notice she says "the game". Not "a portion of the game", as this modder has taken offline. If you talk about SimCity for a single-player, you're talking about a private region. Why? Because the game is functionally the same at the city-level whether you're in a single player region or not. Someone unfamiliar with the game won't understand this, but she was making those comments as someone who has been playing the game since its earliest builds. Go on, talk to dozens of people about your favorite hobby multiple times per day and never make a statement that didn't have the proper context.

I've got a 5-city region that's all mine, all the cities populated. If I were to bring that offline with this mod, I'd have 5 individual cities, I wouldn't have a region. To make that region offline would be a significant amount of engineering work because it'd require either creating a local version of the server or rewriting the code not to use a server. As for a significant amount offloaded to the servers, well, since their servers are noticeably more involved with the game than any game in history, saying it's not significant is ignoring the history of gaming.

I won't deny that I misunderstood her the first time and even mistook the engine's shortcomings as proof when I noticed them for the first time while disconnected. However, me misunderstanding what she said does not make her a liar, just me a poor listener. That said, what this modder brought offline is only a gimped portion of the game that lacks some of the best features of the game.

Vagrant, I strongly suggest ignoring the offline mod, the game is far better with regional play, even if it's just you controlling each city.


So, you're the one bringing up dictionary definitions to this thread and I'm the one arguing semantics ? lachen.gif

What I said is very clear. You brought semantics into the equation and along the way strayed off from what she said. She is talking about significant engineering efforts to make the game off-line, you're talking about the on-line gameplay being a significant portion of the game. How on earth is that the same thing ? How can this be semantics ?

As to how she mentions "the game" and not "a portion of the game", you're just proving my point. When she mentions "the game" and then goes on to talk about what it does and how that would make making a single player experience a significant effort only proves that she meant to include the single region into the description she gave.
Edited by tpi2007 - 3/14/13 at 11:13am
 
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post #72 of 173
More news: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/03/hackers-open-up-offline-play-modding-tools-for-simcity/
 
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post #73 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

So, you're the one bringing up dictionary definitions to this thread and I'm the one arguing semantics ? lachen.gif

What I said is very clear. You brought semantics into the equation and along the way strayed off from what she said. She is talking about significant engineering efforts to make the game off-line, you're talking about the on-line gameplay being a significant portion of the game. How on earth is that the same thing ? How can this be semantics ?

As to how she mentions "the game" and not "a portion of the game", you're just proving my point. When she mentions "the game" and then goes on to talk about what it does and how that would make making a single player experience a significant effort only proves that she meant to include the single region into the description she gave.
The game is not separated from on-line play. Even a single-player city in a region without any other cities still depends on the servers for the global market (you're not making decent profits without either it or other cities, period). It'd be like going to Midevil Times in Dallas (basically a 365/year renaissance fair restaurant that constantly has actors everywhere) and ordering takeout. Yeah, you got food, but you overpayed for what you got unless you're willing to kill for a good turkey leg and ignored the entire point of the restaurant. Is it a stretch to assume that if they were to put in an offline mode they'd want to actually make it a quality mode rather than nothing more than a gimped mode to enrage players further?

I brought definitions in because you fixated on a single word (Significant). That's semantics.
Edited by -Apocalypse- - 3/14/13 at 11:17am
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post #74 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

The game is not separated from on-line play. Even a single-player city in a region without any other cities still depends on the servers for the global market (you're not making decent profits without either it or other cities, period). It'd be like going to Midevil Times in Dallas (basically a 365/year renaissance fair restaurant that constantly has actors everywhere) and ordering takeout. Yeah, you got food, but you overpayed for what you got unless you're willing to kill for a good turkey leg and ignored the entire point of the restaurant.

I brought definitions in because you fixated on a single word (Significant). That's semantics.

No, I didn't fixate on a single word, that is where you strayed off from what she said, I mentioned an expression: " significant engineering efforts". I just edited the previous post to bold that part just to make it clear.

Edit: the correct expression as quoted is "significant amount of engineering work."
Edited by tpi2007 - 3/14/13 at 11:19am
 
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post #75 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Lol, so now my direct quote of two sentences of her is not good enough even though they are around two and a half months newer and taking into consideration that in your whole quote she basically makes the case for the server requirement to cater for on-line gameplay and does not talk about what it takes to run your city.

As to the game saving locally, I've already said it clearly, you just didn't want to understand. The game saves temporarily in that 20 minute time frame (or in the case of the news in the OP, indefinitely) it allows you to play off-line, but not officially, coding has to be done in order to make it work properly. As it is, obviously the game engine wants to connect to the server in order to synchronize the temporary local save with the cloud and then delete the temporary save. This is how it works, the guy's commentary is only telling the obvious.

I didn't say "not good enough", I said it is not a thorough description. That one sentence that you're clinging to in order to actually have a relevant argument is not a thorough analysis or breakdown.

I therefore posted a more thorough breakdown spanning multiple paragraphs that EXPANDS on your one sentence and specifically states how the servers are utilized as part of the game, which proves your interpretation based on that one sentence to be inaccurate.

Your opinion on whether the word "significant" was used wrongly or not is your opinion. Unless you can prove that it was used wrongly you are not basing your argument on solid fact. Your inability to believe is not a solid, inarguable fact.

Simple as that. Or prove it. Don't state your opinion again. That isn't proof.

Also, please PROVE that the game saves locally in that 20 minute time frame. Where does it save to?

Where is your reference for this? No Maxis person, nor the source of this article that you wish to base your argument on (yet actually disagrees with your argument) has ever mentioned this.

So please, show me the proof of these local saves.

As it stands, you are accusing of lies and making assertions and have failed time and again to show any proof of such.
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 3/14/13 at 11:19am
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post #76 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

No, I didn't fixate on a single word, that is where you strayed off from what she said, I mentioned an expression: " significant engineering efforts". I just edited the previous post to bold that part just to make it clear.
And I edited my post as well, but I'll repeat it: Is it a stretch to assume that if they were to put in an offline mode they'd want to actually make it a quality mode rather than nothing more than a gimped mode to enrage players further? What this modder enabled is a severely gimped version of the game.

As for fixating...
Quote:
you know very well that what you said is technically true, but you surreptitiously remove the quantifier "significant amount of engineering work" Lucy used to describe the situation
rolleyes.gif
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post #77 of 173
Am I the only person who's overjoyed by this news?
post #78 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1sT3rM4n View Post

Am I the only person who's overjoyed by this news?
Unlikely, but it's being misrepresented so taper your excitement. You've still got to launch through origin and go into the city while connected. After that losing your connection won't matter until you want to save. Beyond that, it's only a very, very limited portion of the game that stays active while offline.

The one video showing it being online but not syncing is very interesting though, might have to have some fun with disasters once I unlock them. Honestly speaking, the giant lizard is downright useful, since it eats tons of garbage out of your garbage dump, it just destroys buildings on its way to the dump.
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post #79 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

I didn't say "not good enough", I said it is not a thorough description. That one sentence that you're clinging to in order to actually have a relevant argument is not a thorough analysis or breakdown.

I therefore posted a more thorough breakdown spanning multiple paragraphs that EXPANDS on your one sentence and specifically states how the servers are utilized as part of the game, which proves your interpretation based on that one sentence to be inaccurate.

Your opinion on whether the word "significant" was used wrongly or not is your opinion. Unless you can prove that it was used wrongly you are not basing your argument on solid fact. Your inability to believe is not a solid, inarguable fact.

Simple as that. Or prove it. Don't state your opinion again. That isn't proof.

Also, please PROVE that the game saves locally in that 20 minute time frame. Where does it save to?

Where is your reference for this? No Maxis person, nor the source of this article that you wish to base your argument on (yet actually disagrees with your argument) has ever mentioned this.

So please, show me the proof of these local saves.

As it stands, you are accusing of lies and making assertions and have failed time and again to show any proof of such.


It's two sentences actually, just to be accurate. And I already addressed the question. She talks about how the engine works relating to the on-line features. Of course the servers are needed for on-line features. In that text you quoted she is not talking about the same thing.

As to saving locally, you evidently can't have game progress for hours on end without having the game saving from time to time locally, and it also stores the saved games it retrieves from the cloud locally in order to proceed in those times when the servers are unavailable. Do I really have to explain to you how this works ? I thought it was plain obvious by now. The fact that the hackers haven't yet made code to allow to save locally in a format you can load at will is what you're clinging on to, but that has nothing to do with how the game works.

But go on, you accuse me of not being able to prove anything, yet you rely on PR talk to make your points, taking them as absolute truths. But then again, it's coherent with your stance on EA related things.
Edited by tpi2007 - 3/14/13 at 11:41am
 
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post #80 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

And I edited my post as well, but I'll repeat it: Is it a stretch to assume that if they were to put in an offline mode they'd want to actually make it a quality mode rather than nothing more than a gimped mode to enrage players further? What this modder enabled is a severely gimped version of the game.

As for fixating...
Quote:
you know very well that what you said is technically true, but you surreptitiously remove the quantifier "significant amount of engineering work" Lucy used to describe the situation
rolleyes.gif

Oh really, is it ? Read the latest news I just posted from Ars Technica. You can now even do things you can't do in the unmodded game.

So, now you're quoting me out of context ? I wasn't even talking to you in that reply. That point I was making still stands, Grizzle removed the quantifier "significant amount" to make his point and I was highlighting that.
Edited by tpi2007 - 3/14/13 at 11:36am
 
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