Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [GameSpot] PS4 not worth the cost, says Nvidia
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[GameSpot] PS4 not worth the cost, says Nvidia - Page 7

post #61 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

You people are all pretty much clueless. It is not possible to code GPU accelerated physx effects without CUDA, and CUDA is not possible without nvidia hardware. You can easily find this information yourself by looking over the physx SDK. This is not a driver issue, this isn't an issue that can be bypassed. GPU accelerated physx effects are built from the ground up to require the CUDA architecture and that CANNOT be bypassed.

Again, there are two implementations of physx. The most common implementation is for CPU only and does not involve GPU accelerated effects - GPU accelerated effects such as those found in Batman: AC will always require CUDA hardware. That type of GPU accelerated physx cannot be implemented on the CPU or Non-CUDA hardware.

The PS4 is using the CPU portions of physx and thus will not be able to use any GPU accelerated effects. Unfortunately many people aren't aware that there are a TON of games that use physx without GPU accelerated effects, and these games don't require nvidia CUDA hardware. Dragon Age : Origins is one example, there are plenty of others. The end result is that the playstation 4 can use the CPU portions of physx will basically are only for collision detection and physics engine middleware - this does NOT involve any GPU accelerated effects such as those found in Batman: AC or Mafia II.

I think...I THINK...what they are saying that PhysX doesn't need CUDA to run. Which is probably true since it can be run in a minimalistic state on CPUs.

However, Nvidia requires that GPU accelerated PhysX be run on CUDA equipped Nvidia GPUs. Could it be made open to run on any GPU? Most likely. Will it ever happen? Quite unlikely. It isn't a licensing issue like how only certain motherboards can use SLI. It is how Nvidia programmed PhysX to work.

And in case any one was wondering...Dragon Age Origins used PhysX for the calculations of arrows flying through the air...and for nothing else. It was just a quick little hunk of math done on the CPU and it couldn't be done on the GPU even if you wanted it to. The CPU in the PS4 will be capable of doing the same thing. That is all that was released.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 3/14/13 at 9:58am
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
2600K @ 4.7GHz Asus P8P67 B3 GTX 580 EVGA Hydro Copper 2 GTX 580 EVGA  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws bunch of 'em Blu-Ray For movies Windows 8.1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
24.4" Hans G HH251 X2 Yamakasi DS270  Blah 1000watt Super Flower 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Built into Desk Microsoft SideWinder X8 Comfy one... Creative Extreme Gamer 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
2600K @ 4.7GHz Asus P8P67 B3 GTX 580 EVGA Hydro Copper 2 GTX 580 EVGA  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws bunch of 'em Blu-Ray For movies Windows 8.1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
24.4" Hans G HH251 X2 Yamakasi DS270  Blah 1000watt Super Flower 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Built into Desk Microsoft SideWinder X8 Comfy one... Creative Extreme Gamer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #62 of 271
Misleading title is misleading.
Asus ROG G751JY
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4710HQ @ 3.4 Intel H87 GTX 980m @ 1262/5410 w/PREMA BIOS v1.1.1 + Dre... 24GB 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung m.2 PCIE SSD OCZ Vertex 3 Samsung Evo 850 Bluray reader/writer 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermaltake Massive 14² Windows 10 x64 LG-D046C IPS @ 100hz  Corsair K70 Mechanical Gaming Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
230W Power Brick Asus ROG G751JY Logitech G502 Proteus Core RGB + G500 for travel HyperX smooth surface + Corsair hard surface fo... 
AudioAudioAudio
Sound Blaster Omni 5.1 USB w/dual array mic Ultrasone Pro 750 Sennheiser HD598 Special Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
Asus ROG G751JY
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4710HQ @ 3.4 Intel H87 GTX 980m @ 1262/5410 w/PREMA BIOS v1.1.1 + Dre... 24GB 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung m.2 PCIE SSD OCZ Vertex 3 Samsung Evo 850 Bluray reader/writer 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermaltake Massive 14² Windows 10 x64 LG-D046C IPS @ 100hz  Corsair K70 Mechanical Gaming Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
230W Power Brick Asus ROG G751JY Logitech G502 Proteus Core RGB + G500 for travel HyperX smooth surface + Corsair hard surface fo... 
AudioAudioAudio
Sound Blaster Omni 5.1 USB w/dual array mic Ultrasone Pro 750 Sennheiser HD598 Special Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
post #63 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post


You people are all pretty much clueless. It is not possible to code GPU accelerated physx effects without CUDA, and CUDA is not possible without nvidia hardware. You can easily find this information yourself by looking over the physx SDK. This is not a driver issue, this isn't an issue that can be bypassed. GPU accelerated physx effects are built from the ground up to require the CUDA architecture and that CANNOT be bypassed.

Again, there are two implementations of physx. The most common implementation is for CPU only and does not involve GPU accelerated effects - GPU accelerated effects such as those found in Batman: AC will always require CUDA hardware. That type of GPU accelerated physx cannot be implemented on the CPU or Non-CUDA hardware.

The PS4 is using the CPU portions of physx and thus will not be able to use any GPU accelerated effects. Unfortunately many people aren't aware that there are a TON of games that use physx without GPU accelerated effects, and these games don't require nvidia CUDA hardware. Dragon Age : Origins is one example, there are plenty of others. The end result is that the playstation 4 can use the CPU portions of physx will basically are only for collision detection and physics engine middleware - this does NOT involve any GPU accelerated effects such as those found in Batman: AC or Mafia II.

 

This^

 

As already mentioned by me. There is hardware (cuda cores) and software physx (api + cpu). So, both gpu & cpu physx but they are worlds apart in what each can simulate. Nvidias cpu-based physx is not as powerful as Havok, or even OpenCL, etc

 

 

 

Secondly, ...

 

Sugarhall is confusing physx with physics.. He doesn't understand that PhysX is a brand name for nVidia.


Edited by formula m - 3/14/13 at 10:02am
post #64 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

It could be worse...it could be adults arguing.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

post #65 of 271
Translation: we are mad that they choose AMD
GTR-PC
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k 4.3Ghz  ASRock Z77 Extreme 6 EVGA GTX 770 4GB FTW Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB 1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Zotac SSD - WD 1TB (x2) Zalman Performa W10 64 Bits HP 2509 25" 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sidewinder X6 Thermaltake Smart 700w 80Plus CM Storm Enforcer Mionix Naos 3200 
Mouse Pad
SteelSeries QcK Gaming Mouse Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
GTR-PC
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k 4.3Ghz  ASRock Z77 Extreme 6 EVGA GTX 770 4GB FTW Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB 1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Zotac SSD - WD 1TB (x2) Zalman Performa W10 64 Bits HP 2509 25" 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sidewinder X6 Thermaltake Smart 700w 80Plus CM Storm Enforcer Mionix Naos 3200 
Mouse Pad
SteelSeries QcK Gaming Mouse Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
post #66 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

@xoleras.
You are clueless.Here an article

http://www.rage3d.com/previews/video/ati_hd5870_performance_preview/index.php?p=4

AMD offered nvidia to convert physx from cuda to OpenCL
Actually there was a physx wrapper for OpenCl but nvidia stop them.

http://www.ngohq.com/news/14254-physx-gpu-acceleration-on-radeon-update.html

Of course it's possible to convert it. That would require reprogramming it entirely, though.

What Xoleras is saying is that PhysX (the proprietary Nvidia technology, not physics in general) in its current state requires CUDA. Hence, PhysX on consoles would also require CUDA. Hence, it will not be the typical GPU-accelerated effects that you see when running certain games with Nvidia hardware (Borderlands 2, Mafia II, Batman: AC, Hawken, Planetside 2, etc).
Someone's Trash
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core2Quad QX9650 Foxconn Blackops x48 Zotac Amp! GTX 580 1.5GB G.Skill 8GB DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus Windows 7 x64 Professional Hanns-G 27" 1920x1200 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech K800 Rosewill Tachyon 750W 80+ Plat Rosewill Thor Logitech Wireless Trackball M570 
  hide details  
Reply
Someone's Trash
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core2Quad QX9650 Foxconn Blackops x48 Zotac Amp! GTX 580 1.5GB G.Skill 8GB DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus Windows 7 x64 Professional Hanns-G 27" 1920x1200 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech K800 Rosewill Tachyon 750W 80+ Plat Rosewill Thor Logitech Wireless Trackball M570 
  hide details  
Reply
post #67 of 271
Here is the thing. When Xbox 360 and PS3 came out both these consoles used GPUs or better said GPU architectures that where just being replaced in the PC. Now it different. PS4 is going to be using GCN which AMD plans to keep for at least 2 more generations. Even if they dont make much money from PS4 its all bout the PC market. Games will just run better in PC when you have a GCN GPU. That alone is enough in my opinion. Nvidia is but hurt right now.
Ishimura
(21 items)
 
Silent Knight
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 4.6GHz ASRock Z77E-ITX eVGA GTX 1080 Ti Hybrid AVEXIR Blitz 1.1 16GB DDR3-2400MHz CL10 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
SanDisk Ultra II 960GB Toshiba X300 5TB Corsair H100i GTX eVGA Hybrid Water Cooler  
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
4x GentleTyphoon AP-15 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC 4K Razer BlackWidow Chroma  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
eVGA SuperNOVA 750 G3 Define Nano S Logitech G502 Proteus Core PECHAM Gaming Mouse Pad XX-Large 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Audioengine D1 DAC Mackie CR Series CR3 Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Sennheiser HD 598 
Audio
Sony XB950BT 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 4.2GHz ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB @ 1200/1500 2x 4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
OCZ Agility 3 60GB WD Caviar Green 1.5TB 2 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB XSPC Raystorm 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
EK-FC7970 XSPC RS360 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Corsair TX750 
Case
NZXT Switch 810  
  hide details  
Reply
Ishimura
(21 items)
 
Silent Knight
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 4.6GHz ASRock Z77E-ITX eVGA GTX 1080 Ti Hybrid AVEXIR Blitz 1.1 16GB DDR3-2400MHz CL10 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
SanDisk Ultra II 960GB Toshiba X300 5TB Corsair H100i GTX eVGA Hybrid Water Cooler  
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
4x GentleTyphoon AP-15 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC 4K Razer BlackWidow Chroma  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
eVGA SuperNOVA 750 G3 Define Nano S Logitech G502 Proteus Core PECHAM Gaming Mouse Pad XX-Large 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Audioengine D1 DAC Mackie CR Series CR3 Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Sennheiser HD 598 
Audio
Sony XB950BT 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 4.2GHz ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB @ 1200/1500 2x 4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
OCZ Agility 3 60GB WD Caviar Green 1.5TB 2 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB XSPC Raystorm 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
EK-FC7970 XSPC RS360 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Corsair TX750 
Case
NZXT Switch 810  
  hide details  
Reply
post #68 of 271
This is a good thing, imagine if all console ports of this generation started to use PhysX sicksmiley.png
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770k AsRock z77 Extreme 4 EVGA Signature+ GTX 680 w/ Backplate G-Skill Sniper 1600Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Vertex 4 256GB Seagate Barracuda 1TB Corsair H80 Windows 8 Profesional 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VH238H x2 CM Storm Trigger Rosewill Hive 550W 80+ Bronze Individually Sleeved Fractal Design R4 Black Windowed 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Steel Series Sensei Raw Rubberized Steel Series QcK ASUS Vulcan ANC Circumaural Pro Gaming Headset 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770k AsRock z77 Extreme 4 EVGA Signature+ GTX 680 w/ Backplate G-Skill Sniper 1600Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Vertex 4 256GB Seagate Barracuda 1TB Corsair H80 Windows 8 Profesional 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VH238H x2 CM Storm Trigger Rosewill Hive 550W 80+ Bronze Individually Sleeved Fractal Design R4 Black Windowed 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Steel Series Sensei Raw Rubberized Steel Series QcK ASUS Vulcan ANC Circumaural Pro Gaming Headset 
  hide details  
Reply
post #69 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunSkillet View Post

This is a good thing, imagine if all console ports of this generation started to use PhysX sicksmiley.png

Yes, because PhysX is SOOOOOO horrible. rolleyes.gif

Clearly you've either never seen the effects yourself, or are just an AMD fanboy.
Someone's Trash
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core2Quad QX9650 Foxconn Blackops x48 Zotac Amp! GTX 580 1.5GB G.Skill 8GB DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus Windows 7 x64 Professional Hanns-G 27" 1920x1200 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech K800 Rosewill Tachyon 750W 80+ Plat Rosewill Thor Logitech Wireless Trackball M570 
  hide details  
Reply
Someone's Trash
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core2Quad QX9650 Foxconn Blackops x48 Zotac Amp! GTX 580 1.5GB G.Skill 8GB DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus Windows 7 x64 Professional Hanns-G 27" 1920x1200 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech K800 Rosewill Tachyon 750W 80+ Plat Rosewill Thor Logitech Wireless Trackball M570 
  hide details  
Reply
post #70 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBrogbo View Post

Yes, because PhysX is SOOOOOO horrible. rolleyes.gif

Clearly you've either never seen the effects yourself, or are just an AMD fanboy.

I'm not an AMD fanboy, but if every game used PhysX then that throws AMD out the window for everyone. I'm going to have to purchase a GTX 670 just so I can use CUDA in adobe programs, it's already a bit disappointing that I cant spend $20 more to get a 7970 which would give me better FPS in games. (Hopefully CS7 has OpenCL support) AMD gives a better bang for the buck for people who purely play games at multiple price points, it would suck for them if they lost that option just because of a software monopoly.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770k AsRock z77 Extreme 4 EVGA Signature+ GTX 680 w/ Backplate G-Skill Sniper 1600Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Vertex 4 256GB Seagate Barracuda 1TB Corsair H80 Windows 8 Profesional 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VH238H x2 CM Storm Trigger Rosewill Hive 550W 80+ Bronze Individually Sleeved Fractal Design R4 Black Windowed 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Steel Series Sensei Raw Rubberized Steel Series QcK ASUS Vulcan ANC Circumaural Pro Gaming Headset 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770k AsRock z77 Extreme 4 EVGA Signature+ GTX 680 w/ Backplate G-Skill Sniper 1600Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Vertex 4 256GB Seagate Barracuda 1TB Corsair H80 Windows 8 Profesional 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VH238H x2 CM Storm Trigger Rosewill Hive 550W 80+ Bronze Individually Sleeved Fractal Design R4 Black Windowed 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Steel Series Sensei Raw Rubberized Steel Series QcK ASUS Vulcan ANC Circumaural Pro Gaming Headset 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [GameSpot] PS4 not worth the cost, says Nvidia