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[HWCANUCKS] NVIDIA GTX TITAN vs. SLI & Crossfire - Page 12

post #111 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

please do explain why. Tests already show this is what is happening, it's not really debatable.

I was playing with a 3870x2 quadfire setup the other day and dear lord. Yes it's not relevant compared to today's cards but holy hell, if someone wants to witness the stuttering that people have complained about they need to use that setup, I couldn't believe my eyes when I fired up 3dmark vantage, even my 5870s weren't that bad, the stuttering was clear as day and anyone on this forum could see it.

It has gotten better since then but as tests have proven, it's still there.


Yes software sees it.

Do you on the 7970?
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post #112 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Yes software sees it.

Do you on the 7970?

No I don't. However I've yet to see you claim you own one either.

Experience is one thing, facts are another.

However this precedent you're setting does sound lovely, from this day on everyone who doesn't own a Titan can't say that it isn't 500% faster than a 7970. I mean software sees those fps numbers we've seen in reviews, but do you own a Titan?
 
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post #113 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caples View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Titan is 41% slower then 7970 Xfire yet costs 28.5% more. Great work Nvidia thumb.gif

And you're limited to adding in two more cards which can and will be beaten by three Titans by a significant margin, with room for a fourth Titan.

When Nvidia finally works out the SLI scaling on Titans...



That's funny cuz I haven't found that to be true.
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post #114 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

No I don't. However I've yet to see you claim you own one either.

Experience is one thing, facts are another.

However this precedent you're setting does sound lovely, from this day on everyone who doesn't own a Titan can't say that it isn't 500% faster than a 7970. I mean software sees those fps numbers we've seen in reviews, but do you own a Titan?

Ok that's why its theory...

Done.
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post #115 of 206
The price is out of hand but Titan is king.
I am going to need another 670 soon looking at these results!
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post #116 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Misunderstanding the issue.

With AMD you do indeed have better average frame times. However those aren't the issue, obviously lower is better but unless you look at the individual frames you will not see the big picture. This is people disagreed with Xoleras in the Titan review thread when he said that the 690 has better frame times than the Titan, yes it does, average frame times, which are basically just another way of telling the fps.

The problem with AMD at the moment is that they have more uneven frame times than Nvidia. What you want to achieve a smooth experience is lots of frames that that say 15ms to render, not a ton of 10ms ones and a 30ms one here and there or even worse, every other frame being 40ms/7ms.

First of all, frames that only last for very few milliseconds between longer frames don't really affect anything as they can't properly be seen without a still picture and as such don't improve gameplay at all. Secondly big jumps between frame times will show as stuttering even though it will not have any effect on average frame times.

What you want (in ms) : 15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15
What you sometimes get with AMD: 10,10,35,10,40,10,10,10,70,5,10,10,2,45,35,1,10,10

Which one will give the smoother experience?

^ your theory makes sense. However practically it doesn't.... tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

please do explain why. Tests already show this is what is happening, it's not really debatable.

I was playing with a 3870x2 quadfire setup the other day and dear lord. Yes it's not relevant compared to today's cards but holy hell, if someone wants to witness the stuttering that people have complained about they need to use that setup, I couldn't believe my eyes when I fired up 3dmark vantage, even my 5870s weren't that bad, the stuttering was clear as day and anyone on this forum could see it.

It has gotten better since then but as tests have proven, it's still there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

No I don't. However I've yet to see you claim you own one either.

Experience is one thing, facts are another.

However this precedent you're setting does sound lovely, from this day on everyone who doesn't own a Titan can't say that it isn't 500% faster than a 7970. I mean software sees those fps numbers we've seen in reviews, but do you own a Titan?

Alatar makes a good argument but there is one flaw in it. Yes you want (in ms) : 15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15,15 but that's not what you get with a Titan either. To get consistently low and similar frame times you need to run at a fixed frame rate like 60FPS, always no dips what so ever.

Even when you do run with vsync there is still some amount of jitter. That's how it is with real time engines. In the real world when you run a titan there will be dips below 60 and the frame times wont be consistent. Sure they might be more consistent then SLI/crossfire but that does not automatically mean it is superior in smoothness.

When you make the argument that a Titan is better because it runs a lower but more consistent frame rate its the same as making the argument that consoles running 30FPS are smoother then a PC running at 45-60FPS. While there is some truth to it its not as clear cut as that as even tough the PC's frame times are all over the place it still offers more motion information and as a result looks smoother.

If the Titan and the crossfire/SLI all got the same amount of FPS say 50. Then yes the most consistent frame times would be the smoothest experience. But that's not the case here as the dual GPU setups can push out more FPS. As dual GPU smoothness varies from title to tile as does the scaling/FPS lead there will be some games where a Titan gives a better experience and there will be games where the crossfire/SLI setups will take the win.

Personally I don't have a Titan or a 7970 CF setup but I did recently come form a 4890 crossfire setup to a single GTX 670. From my experience the microsutter/smoothness issues have been blown out of proportion. In the 3 years that I ran the two cards I can count the smoothness issue on one hand and even then in many cases it did get fixed with a patch or a driver update. I had many more instances of just poor scaling then I did with smoothness issues.
    
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post #117 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

please do explain why. Tests already show this is what is happening, it's not really debatable.

I was playing with a 3870x2 quadfire setup the other day and dear lord. Yes it's not relevant compared to today's cards but holy hell, if someone wants to witness the stuttering that people have complained about they need to use that setup, I couldn't believe my eyes when I fired up 3dmark vantage, even my 5870s weren't that bad, the stuttering was clear as day and anyone on this forum could see it.

It has gotten better since then but as tests have proven, it's still there.

My CF 4870 512s were so uncomfortable to use due to ms, i only used cf for benchmarks, and disposed of, what was then, very efficient scaling (around 85% in best case scenarios) in favor of lower fps with fluid consistent frametimes. I wish frametimes had come into to popular enthusiast discourse years ago, i caught a lot of flack for supporting the micro stutter "theory" back then.
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post #118 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Titan is 41% slower then 7970 Xfire yet costs 28.5% more. Great work Nvidia thumb.gif
What bragging rights? People who benchmark dont use a single card. We use multiple ones.

"Ask any benchmarker, any real benchmarker. It doesnt matter if you win by a fraction of a fps or a single fps. winning's winning" biggrin.gif

Exactly, the fastest SOLUTION gets hailed, not the fastest card most of the time so as long as you can make the computer go faster with either AMD or Nvidia, then that solution wins. AMD wins. thumb.gif
post #119 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caples View Post

Do you mean the difference between the Lotus and Ferrari teams or the difference between F1 and Indy?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
hint: look at the drivers
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post #120 of 206
I knew it was a stupid idea to use a Titan to power a 120hz monitor, seriously glad I didn't go for it.

But sadly the GTX700 cards seem to be so far away....
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