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post #11 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

48k should be the default sample rate for all consumer sound cards. As I said in another thread, it's utterly pointless running higher sample rates unless you're mixing down multi-tracks

Hmmm, seems Pulse defaults to 41000. Dunno what to exactly make of that then, just being cautious I guess (Pulse maintainers). Got any insight on some of the other settings?
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post #12 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Hmmm, seems Pulse defaults to 41000. Dunno what to exactly make of that then, just being cautious I guess (Pulse maintainers). Got any insight on some of the other settings?
There isn't a 41k standard. Do you mean 44100Hz? If so, that's perfectly acceptable as well. Most audio will be encoded in either 44k (eg CD audio) or 48k (video standard). It's very rare that you'll come across any audio recorded at a higher sample rate unless you're a studio engineer or have specifically gone out of your way to obtain higher sample rates.

It's a similar case with the 16 vs 24 vs 32 bit argument. On consumer hardware listening to consumer level recordings (both audio and video), they'll all be in 16bit. There's absolutely no need to set pulse to 24 or 32 bit unless you're recording or producing.

Playing back CD rips through Pulse when it's configured to 32bit 96KHz could actually have the reverse effect of improving your audio. If your hardware isn't capable of such high sample rates, then the up-sampling might actually create distortions. But even if you do have hardware capable of it, you wouldn't hear any improvements unless your source was recorded in higher sample rates as well (just the same as how converting an MP3 into a WAV file wouldn't repair any of the damage done to the audio due to the lossy compression algorithms applied by the MPEG2-layer 3 codec).

However if you do have a folder full of audio recorded at 32bit 96,000Hz, well then you have decent justification running Pulse Audio with that config. However CD audio is 16bit 44,100Hz and DVDs playback at 16bit 48,00Hz (as do some older pro audio gear like DATs)
post #13 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

There isn't a 41k standard. Do you mean 44100Hz? If so, that's perfectly acceptable as well. Most audio will be encoded in either 44k (eg CD audio) or 48k (video standard). It's very rare that you'll come across any audio recorded at a higher sample rate unless you're a studio engineer or have specifically gone out of your way to obtain higher sample rates.

It's a similar case with the 16 vs 24 vs 32 bit argument. On consumer hardware listening to consumer level recordings (both audio and video), they'll all be in 16bit. There's absolutely no need to set pulse to 24 or 32 bit unless you're recording or producing.

Playing back CD rips through Pulse when it's configured to 32bit 96KHz could actually have the reverse effect of improving your audio. If your hardware isn't capable of such high sample rates, then the up-sampling might actually create distortions. But even if you do have hardware capable of it, you wouldn't hear any improvements unless your source was recorded in higher sample rates as well (just the same as how converting an MP3 into a WAV file wouldn't repair any of the damage done to the audio due to the lossy compression algorithms applied by the MPEG2-layer 3 codec).

However if you do have a folder full of audio recorded at 32bit 96,000Hz, well then you have decent justification running Pulse Audio with that config. However CD audio is 16bit 44,100Hz and DVDs playback at 16bit 48,00Hz (as do some older pro audio gear like DATs)

Yeah, 44100, lol I hadn't even had my smoke yet before posting. Just had my shower, ugh (morning smoke was 1st). Yeah, I've got a music collection that should be worth the increase in quality. That's the only reason I'd do this, nothing else should matter TBH. Anyways, can't really type too much now gonna see if I can get some things done quicker now that I'm no longer required to sitt some kids.
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post #14 of 65
Thread Starter 
I can understand the kHz argument on not going above 48kHz unless you have specific audio (Bluray should be shouldn't it in certain movies?) As for the 32bit/float thing...well...I might like the specific sound of that distortion then because it sounds better to me though I again can concede that like everything with audio it's near impossible to measure yourself as your memory of sound is less able to retain difference in quality unless it is massive (IIRC please tell me if that's wrong). For me the jump past 48kHz is not worth the extra load that it does indeed put on everything. Considering the seemingly near negligble load from changing to float 32 maybe it doesn't change anything and I am hearing what I want to hear...so far I've been able to differentiate but coming up with a method of completely unbiased testing for myself is difficult. All I know is that there is plenty of discussion about why you should change Pulse out of Speex (hence "Secret Rabbit Code").

I do have some 24bit 96kHz songs (from Bandcamp bands) but not that many. frown.gif
     
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post #15 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

I can understand the kHz argument on not going above 48kHz unless you have specific audio (Bluray should be shouldn't it in certain movies?) As for the 32bit/float thing...well...I might like the specific sound of that distortion then because it sounds better to me though I again can concede that like everything with audio it's near impossible to measure yourself as your memory of sound is less able to retain difference in quality unless it is massive (IIRC please tell me if that's wrong). For me the jump past 48kHz is not worth the extra load that it does indeed put on everything. Considering the seemingly near negligble load from changing to float 32 maybe it doesn't change anything and I am hearing what I want to hear...so far I've been able to differentiate but coming up with a method of completely unbiased testing for myself is difficult. All I know is that there is plenty of discussion about why you should change Pulse out of Speex (hence "Secret Rabbit Code").

I do have some 24bit 96kHz songs (from Bandcamp bands) but not that many. frown.gif

I think my take on it, which you might share is this: i paid for hardware that can do at least 32bit signed (non-floating). From what I can tell, that's what the emu10k1 does (SoundBlaster). So I might as well get my monies worth if I can, I'm not going to go out of my way and "hack things up". i might go so far as to install OSSv4, that's it. I think that's a fair cost to go so I can get what I paid for, regardless of what I hear it's what my audio should be able to run at. I paid for a 32bit DAC, should get one.

I dunno, kinda like I'm pissed at 7950 linux performance. I paid for a card that should be able to do 8xAA, is it so unreasonable to expect that. Especially when they are supposed to be supporters of the FOSS? That's another thread, another issue, nothing we can really do from what I can tell. Either way, going back to sound, if our hardware can do it and the effort is so minimal why not?
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post #16 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

I think my take on it, which you might share is this: i paid for hardware that can do at least 32bit signed (non-floating). From what I can tell, that's what the emu10k1 does (SoundBlaster). So I might as well get my monies worth if I can, I'm not going to go out of my way and "hack things up". i might go so far as to install OSSv4, that's it. I think that's a fair cost to go so I can get what I paid for, regardless of what I hear it's what my audio should be able to run at. I paid for a 32bit DAC, should get one.

I dunno, kinda like I'm pissed at 7950 linux performance. I paid for a card that should be able to do 8xAA, is it so unreasonable to expect that. Especially when they are supposed to be supporters of the FOSS? That's another thread, another issue, nothing we can really do from what I can tell. Either way, going back to sound, if our hardware can do it and the effort is so minimal why not?

Exactly. Though...I do wonder why Pulse would work when we put values beyond what even the DACs or internal audio chips we have are supposed to be capable of? I mean the VIA chip on my desktop in Windows only allows 24bit depth but in Linux it works just fine with float32ne.

There's supposed to be some other option in the config that can dramatically reduce pulse's latency (which is a huge complaint against it) but they seem to come at the price of whether your audio will cut out or become static. I'll see if I can find that again as it just came to mind.
     
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post #17 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Exactly. Though...I do wonder why Pulse would work when we put values beyond what even the DACs or internal audio chips we have are supposed to be capable of? I mean the VIA chip on my desktop in Windows only allows 24bit depth but in Linux it works just fine with float32ne.

There's supposed to be some other option in the config that can dramatically reduce pulse's latency (which is a huge complaint against it) but they seem to come at the price of whether your audio will cut out or become static. I'll see if I can find that again as it just came to mind.

I think it'll offload to the CPU? I don't know, it might also force certain rates at the driver level. I know a lot of chips only say 24bit but they might produce 32bit signed, so you could try that and it should be closer to what you might get? Idk, onboard DACs are a little leaner when it comes to stuff. Even cheap old cards generally have a better build, the reason they can get away with it is as Plan9 said. Also, even if you get high bit rate audio the chances of it being worth it are slim. Most studio cuts aren't done in those high rates, so usually you are getting a file that has been converted. As the laws of reality state, you cannot create something that never existed. That data is lost once it's mastered, just like a picture or anything else. If you can find studio edits that aren't mastered and have been done in high quality, it's worth it.

One of the reasons I like digital audio, techno and the likes. It can have a higher quality, which from when I used to party was a wanted thing. A lot of DJs like higher quality audio as you can crank it more without hearing the distortion. I don't remember the why's or anything, was explained and didn't care. Honestly, still don't really care. lol For a bit I gave a rats, then I sold my mixer and decided to just stay with playing guitar. Works for me. =)
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post #18 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

I can understand the kHz argument on not going above 48kHz unless you have specific audio (Bluray should be shouldn't it in certain movies?) As for the 32bit/float thing...well...I might like the specific sound of that distortion then because it sounds better to me though I again can concede that like everything with audio it's near impossible to measure yourself as your memory of sound is less able to retain difference in quality unless it is massive (IIRC please tell me if that's wrong). For me the jump past 48kHz is not worth the extra load that it does indeed put on everything. Considering the seemingly near negligble load from changing to float 32 maybe it doesn't change anything and I am hearing what I want to hear...so far I've been able to differentiate but coming up with a method of completely unbiased testing for myself is difficult. All I know is that there is plenty of discussion about why you should change Pulse out of Speex (hence "Secret Rabbit Code").

I do have some 24bit 96kHz songs (from Bandcamp bands) but not that many. frown.gif

There's also a lot of placebo effect when it comes to audio quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

I think my take on it, which you might share is this: i paid for hardware that can do at least 32bit signed (non-floating). From what I can tell, that's what the emu10k1 does (SoundBlaster). So I might as well get my monies worth if I can, I'm not going to go out of my way and "hack things up". i might go so far as to install OSSv4, that's it. I think that's a fair cost to go so I can get what I paid for, regardless of what I hear it's what my audio should be able to run at. I paid for a 32bit DAC, should get one.
That's fine if you have audio already encoded in 32bit. But if you don't, then your logic is akin to towing a trailer at 120MPH just because your car is capable of it (ie, just because hardware can produce specific output, it doesn't mean you gain anything in outputting at that mode).

But as you said, you do have higher quality stuff.
Quote:
A lot of DJs like higher quality audio as you can crank it more without hearing the distortion
That's not strictly true. There's a lot of variables to these things - too many variables to make generalisations frown.gif.
In fact it used to be pretty common for 192Kbps MP3s to be played in clubs (even I've done it) because bandwidth back then was still a commodity so a lot of digital content wasn't available in better quality.
Edited by Plan9 - 3/26/13 at 6:19pm
post #19 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

There's also a lot of placebo effect when it comes to audio quality.
That's fine if you have audio already encoded in 32bit. But if you don't, then your logic is akin to towing a trailer at 120MPH just because your car is capable of it (ie, just because hardware can produce specific output, it doesn't mean you gain anything in outputting at that mode).

But as you said, you do have higher quality stuff.
That's not strictly true. There's a lot of variables to these things - too many variables to make generalisations frown.gif.
In fact it used to be pretty common for 192Kbps MP3s to be played in clubs (even I've done it) because bandwidth back then was still a commodity so a lot of digital content wasn't available in better quality.

yeah, I know it's all about the hardware and setup. Since I don't know any of that, and those are some pretty complex setups sometimes, I won't try and make sense of it. Some of the things they do now, it's pretty intense. I've seen people do live tracks, some that were even good. Building the song as they go, with audio samples on the fly. Pretty intense stuff sometimes, makes for one helluva party. =P I'm sure you know about that though.

As far as audio quality, I try and get my collection to the highest I can. i don't do lossless though, aim for the highest MP3. I'm not going to indulge in the highest audio fidelity when most of the time I can't appreciate it. I try, it's just hard to really pick apart music when I tend to listen to it while I'm doing something on here. Though how do most programs run? Games, apps, stuff like that, they all run 24bit these days? I'm going to assume yes? I guess my reasoning for the audio is a bit harsh, just figure it's an easy setup in case I do come across something that makes it worth it. Not hard modifying that pulse config. =P

Just had a thought, wouldn't we need to mess with ALSA settings or will that stick with Pulse as long as the DAC allows it?
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post #20 of 65
Thread Starter 
I'm pretty sure most of my blurays are 24bit and 96kHz so I'd rather not have to go and edit the config every time I want to watch one in XBMC. But...I think the difference between speex and the higher quality settings should be noticeable. And I thought that Pulse superseded ALSA on the audio handling....gah...sound in Linux is really a pain sometimes.

Would you agree that helping people setup at least the speaker configuration in the config would be very helpful in getting better out of Pulse?
     
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