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Are AMD CPUs really THAT bad as people say? - Page 12  

post #111 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

but logans test were 3770k vs 8350, whats 20 dollars in savings vs 100 more for the 3770K?

Logan's test were the worst testing procedures ever conducted for a review
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post #112 of 358
AMD cpus are not that bad AT ALL. In fact they are a decent value for their money compared to Intel processors. In terms of overall speed and efficiency, Intel wins and that is where the debate gets hit with fanboyism.

The facts are as follows: Intel processors are faster in most applications. AMD, however, has a better price per dollar purchase utility. Myself, I live next to a microcenter so buying a 3770k for $200 was a no brainer - I can own the top of the line AMD processor for a marginal increase in price. The gap between the processors will also shorten as many games and applications in general will start using 4+ cores. By this time, however, Intel will respond with their own 6+core processor so only time will tell who has the better long term strategy. My money is on Intel remaining the performance king for quite sometime.


edit: and I know Intel already has a 6 core processor - I am simply referring to mainstream not extreme systems.
post #113 of 358
So far this thread has been fairly CIVIL for the topic.


It only took us 5 pages before someone said something absurd.



TO OP.... Are AMD CPUs really as bad as people say? Well, that depends on who the people are saying it and what they are saying. So it's a relative question.


I will tell you what I know from 10 years of being with AMD after the pentium 4 release until I switched to the 2600k back in Feb 2012. AMD is "good enough" but its not great. I noticed coming from my AMD chip that in heavily CPU bound games and tasks that my performance on Intel was better and it wasn't by like OVER 9000% but it was by enough to tell a difference. In games like skyrim, battlefield 3, etc I noticed a 15-25% improvement in framerates with the exact same GPU and motherboard type (I went from a fatal1ty pro AM3 to a fatal1ty pro p67) Essentially everything was the same except the CPU.

If you're on a budget there is a slight dilemma. While AMD is initially cheaper Intel is significantly better in one aspect. Power consumption. While the Piledriver revision has alleviated some of this issue its still not near the level of what Intel can do on idle and load power draw. They'll need to work on that to be competitive. Your AMD chip is cheaper but at 5 to 10 dollars a month more on your power bill x 12 months the returns diminish quickly and if you're on a budget enough to where 100 dollars is an issue an increase in monthly power bill can be a deciding factor.

For most casual computer users and non hardcore gamers an AMD chip is going to be "good enough." Look, this is OCN where in the past 2 weeks I've seen members dropping 4000 dollars on graphics cards. Are Intel processors the best? Yes they are. Are they so significantly better that buying an AMD is stupid? That only depends on what you want to do and what your budget is.
 
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post #114 of 358
Bulldozer/Zambezi was really as bad as people say. Piledriver was a huge improvement but it's an improvement over something terrible.

The thing is, is that all hardware has a place and a price, so it's not as black and white as people make it out to be. However most people here do overclocking, benching, gaming, and general usage, maybe some very IPC reliant multi-threaded tasks like a bit of video editing or h264, and in these applications, Intel destroys AMD both absolutely and in price.

A big problem also is that FX series in all, is really terrible in benching, overclocking, and gaming, and it's little to no improvement over the AM3 phenom ii series in these regards. You can see multiple benches showing that literally, Phenom II and the FX-8350 are neck in neck for most applications, for gaming, and that even the Phenom II is stronger clock for clock.

Now, that said, the FX series - and by FX I mean 8350/Vischera because Bulldozer was, by everyone's standards, a total and complete failure of a chip - really shines, particularly for cost, in very specific applications. Unfortunately, none of those applications are really popular amongst OCN users. It's definitely not gaming.

Finally, all the FX chips are much worse than Intel when you take performance out of the equation. The memory controller is a joke that isn't capable of speeds on RAM anywhere near what Ivy Bridge can do, the super i/o reports way more information for intel than amd, the sensors and thermal diodes on intel is way more accurate and higher quality than amd's (amd is not maxing out at ~62*C, it gets just as hot as intel's 32nm).

Not to mention AMD is on 32nm, vs Intel which is on 22nm. That's insane, AMD is a full generation behind and future projections show they aren't catching up too soon either. That's like trying to compare DDR2 and DDR3, sure, maybe the fastest DDR2 RAM can compete with newer DDR3 at first but...

And power consumption. Now in this day and age, performance doesn't matter anymore, it's all about efficiency and power consumption (OCN and overclockers may have a hard time understanding this, but talk to any computer hardware shop or engineer). Now I'm not tooting Intel's horn here, as Intel has zero presence in the mobile computing market as well, but AMD is going to have a very hard time in the future of CPUs. Right now Intel and AMD aren't competing with eachother, they are competing with the likes of Qualcomm, ARM, Apple. And AMD's power consumption is just abysmal compared to intel.

In every way besides performance, AMD is much worse than Intel, it's a generation behind at least. Right now AMD is a great company, it's just that they are currently paying for mistakes made years ago, that are manifesting recently. They also lost their foundry, meaning they will only fall further and further behind. Intel is able to make quick samples and batches however they like with their own foundry, while AMD has to abide by rules and regulations that Global Foundries sets in place and cannot just print off a sample to play with anytime they like.

I've owned both Intel and AMD. And I still maintain that the Phenom II X4 is the best CPU to buy right now for a sub-$400 computer. And for certain applications, very, very specialist applications, the FX chip is great. And there's even one or two games that FX beats Intel i5 in gaming, surprisingly. But it's not by any significant amount, and FX gets destroyed in most applications and games, which is the problem.

So there is definitely a place for FX CPUs. It's just very, very niche and rare. In reality, all of these CPUs are way overkill, even an i5 is overkill for the vast majority of games. There's frankly really no reason for more than an Athlon II/Phenom II for gaming, and the Pentium/i3, while they might be 'better' chips technologically speaking, they are priced a little high, they are only dualcore (i3 with hyperthreading), and you can't overclock them.

Also - in regards to motherboards, AMD is just as expensive as Intel. The power consumption is so ridiculous on AMD that in order to safely overclock you have to buy such a high quality motherboard that it ends up costing the same as a brand new Z77 board. I mean a B75 board is actually very cheap, just as cheap as an AM3+ board that would have serious VRM flaws if you tried to overclock on it.

When people are talking about FX vs SB/IB in regards to general usage, gaming, tasks that don't even need near the power of an i5 or FX chip anyways - unfortunately yes, AMD's FX is really as bad as people say in regards to gaming, overclocking, benching, general usage. FX chips have a great price to performance ratio on particular multi-threaded applications, but you are talking professional level and very niche programs, something very few people do.

The argument is only muddied by the fact that all of these CPUs are insanely strong, and complete overkill for gaming and general usage, so everyone who owns any of these chips just says it's the best without trying the other, when in reality you wouldn't notice the difference between any of them unless you do extremely intensive stuff. Case in point:
Quote:
My Amd FX 6100 bulldozer has served me more then well, its yielded me 60 fps in every game i play,low heat and easy to overclock-how thats crap in some people eyes is beyond me but then again I really dont care what people think about my equipment! Thats just my 2 cents,if it works why change it....I will be getting the 8350 soon:D

And gaming is hardly cpu intensive, as much as people like to think they need an i7 for that one game or an i5 is important, it isn't. It's overkill.
Edited by Belial - 3/15/13 at 10:52am
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post #115 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

big difference though, Tek used higher spec'd memory than Linus, AFAIK AMD loves the faster memory speeds.
What were their specific memory speeds? I still think something went wrong in Logan's result just from looking at the cinebench single threaded benchmarks of both processors.
post #116 of 358
Also to add, overclocking changes a lot since the strength of FX is in it's cores, not IPC - when you compare overclocked FX vs Intel, the gap widens by a huge amount. SB/IB at 5ghz vs FX at 5ghz, the intel chips just destroy the FX when they were rather neck and neck before in multi-threaded applications.

You have a lot of really misleading benches out there or cherrypicked comparisons, and only in very multi-threaded applications, does FX compare to Intel. It doesn't even 'destroy' Intel, it just slightly beats them, and only on stock clocks (which is much more favorable to AMD than Intel).

FX has a good price to performance for very niche multi-threaded tasks used on a professional level, but it's kind of far and few - just because you use photoshop, if you are using it for web design, it isn't going to be close to being used enough to warrant this kind of power, or that you use it on a professional level that's demanding enough for these chips. For gaming, general usage, and even many multithreaded applications, Phenom II is just as strong, and is much cheaper, making it the better AMD buy for the vast majority of people, especially gamers.
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post #117 of 358
Hi just thought I would chime in with my experience.

I recently "upgraded" from a thuban 1090T to a i5 3570K and I am disappointed in its performance. Sure it uses less power at idle (like 30 watts less, I have a built in watt meter in my case) but my system is never at idle, either gaming or asleep. The problem is that when overclocked to just 4.5 (and it goes past 5.0 easy after delidding) it consumes more power than my old thuban @4.0 and the performance in frames per second is WORSE in certain games (I'm looking at YOU planetside2). However Farcry3 is better on the i5 than the thuban, should have kept both platforms I guess.

It kinda makes me think all this AMD vs Intel is just fanbois wanting to justify their overpayment of parts. Synthetic benchmarks are better with the intel and skyrim has a higher frame rate but skyrim was already way over 60fps so who cares about that difference.

What a mess, maybe 2011 socket is the answer frown.gif
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post #118 of 358
Since the the Phenom 2 series is no longer in production, RMA etc will not be easy. Of course if you buy second hand that's not a problem, but I honestly would not recommend a Phenom 2 anymore. The FX PD series are more than capable of doing what most people need them to do.
post #119 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

What were their specific memory speeds? I still think something went wrong in Logan's result just from looking at the cinebench single threaded benchmarks of both processors.

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post #120 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Also to add, overclocking changes a lot since the strength of FX is in it's cores, not IPC - when you compare overclocked FX vs Intel, the gap widens by a huge amount. SB/IB at 5ghz vs FX at 5ghz, the intel chips just destroy the FX when they were rather neck and neck before in multi-threaded applications.
This is why I hate most CPU and GPU reviews. They test them stock. If you compare a stock GTX 670 and a stock 7970, they are actually pretty close (at least before the major driver change) but when you overclocked both, the 7970 was significantly better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

2133mhz Source
I'm guessing Linus used 1866MHz, then.
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