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Are AMD CPUs really THAT bad as people say? - Page 15  

post #141 of 358
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Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

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Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

NH-D14 could be better with non-stock fans, but that doesn't make for easy lists like that one.
It's not really fair to compare something running Corsair stock howling fans to the D14 running Noctuas, but your point is still valid.

No it isn't, but then I'd have to add things like "NH-D14 with Corsair fans" and "H80 with COUGAR fans, and ugh what a mess.
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post #142 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by malmental View Post

not me.... your better off saying the 8350 instead...
980BE and 1100T = FTW..

No, I mean the bulldozer. The quad phenoms were nice and all back in the day but in a saturated system like the ones i need to run (vent/teamspeak/skype/gameplay recording/antivirus/antispyware/monitoring widgets/2nd monitor with browser and/or tv program,unity work on the side etc) they would get maxed. Ofc now that vishera is out there isn't much of a reason to pick one.
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post #143 of 358
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Originally Posted by Jared2608 View Post

Since the the Phenom 2 series is no longer in production, RMA etc will not be easy. Of course if you buy second hand that's not a problem, but I honestly would not recommend a Phenom 2 anymore. The FX PD series are more than capable of doing what most people need them to do.

You just buy another second hand Phenom 2, I don't see the problem. Paying $80+ for AM3+ is a joke. And all of these chips are way overkill for what most people here are even doing. You go to any computer technician, any computer repair shop, and ask them about haswell, 3570k vs 8350, they will have no clue what you are even talking about. People just don't need that sort of power anymore.

I mean I'd say the Phenom II X4 is the best buy for a CPU right now, really. I only got an i7 because I look at my computer as an investment, I plan to sell it soon and got a great price on these parts, I'll be able to turn a huge profit on it.
Quote:
Just built a computer for my brother using a FX-6300 and he loves it!

Right, anyone would love a Pentium or an Athlon II X4 as well. These chips are all absurdly powerful and the general enthusiast gamer won't be able to tell the difference. But for the few of us that do actually need the hardware, and when talking about which is better, Intel is generally better. Now FX Piledriver is definitely better in certain applications, but it's only for professional level, very specific applications, not gaming, not general usage.

But the problem is people buy an FX chip, and go around saying they love it and how awesome it is. Yea, it is awesome, but so is a Pentium. The problem is you paid way too much money for too little performance in the applications you use it for. Pretty sure your brother wouldn't be able to tell if someone threw an Athlon in his computer either.
Quote:
The new APU's are awesome for HTPC machines.

I used to think so, but I don't think so anymore. You can buy something like a 4850 for $20 or a 4870 for what, like $40, you can get a 460 for $60. Why would you get an APU when you can get absurdly powerful GPUs for used or on geeks.com? And yea, used, there is a slight risk in used, but a 4850 for $20, I don't see the risk in that...

Not to say buy an i3 (garbage until they have a k edition), just I think athlon/phenom ii is better. or i suppose you mean form factor, in which case haswell should introduce interesting stuff for igpu systems i think.
Quote:
Heck I broke 4.4Ghz with a FX-6100 with a DKII. I like both. I choose AMD because of the price. I'm not semi-rich like some of you all. It performs up to my standard and for what I want/need it to do.

I bet most people who bought FX spent more than I did on my system with an i7-3770K. As for the FX 6xxx, 4xxx, pretty sure I have way more than double the performance for less than double the cost.

There is no 'i'm not rich' argument to buy with AMD. Just like with any motherboard, you have to pay for a decent VRM so a good motherboard, for either AMD or Intel, is going to cost you at least $100 without being on sale. As for the CPU, there's such a little price difference in the i5/i7 and the FX-8xxx while the performance gap in the two for gaming, overclocking, power consumption, and IPC is so huge that there's no value to be had in the FX-8xxx unless you are doing professional level compute workloads of a multi-threaded nature.

Phenom II being head to head and even beating the FX in single-threaded applications and gaming just the FX chips a joke for gaming or general usage. All of these chips are absurdly overpowered though, and are all good chips. Just buying an FX chip on 32nm is a lot like just buying Nehalem instead of Ivy Bridge, DDR2 instead of DDR3.
Edited by Belial - 3/15/13 at 7:33pm
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post #144 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

You just buy another second hand Phenom 2, I don't see the problem. Paying $80+ for AM3+ is a joke. And all of these chips are way overkill for what most people here are even doing. You go to any computer technician, any computer repair shop, and ask them about haswell, 3570k vs 8350, they will have no clue what you are even talking about. People just don't need that sort of power anymore.

I mean I'd say the Phenom II X4 is the best buy for a CPU right now, really. I only got an i7 because I look at my computer as an investment, I plan to sell it soon and got a great price on these parts, I'll be able to turn a huge profit on it.
Right, anyone would love a Pentium or an Athlon II X4 as well. These chips are all absurdly powerful and the general enthusiast gamer won't be able to tell the difference. But for the few of us that do actually need the hardware, and when talking about which is better, Intel is generally better. Now FX Piledriver is definitely better in certain applications, but it's only for professional level, very specific applications, not gaming, not general usage.

But the problem is people buy an FX chip, and go around saying they love it and how awesome it is. Yea, it is awesome, but so is a Pentium. The problem is you paid way too much money for too little performance in the applications you use it for. Pretty sure your brother wouldn't be able to tell if someone threw an Athlon in his computer either.
I used to think so, but I don't think so anymore. You can buy something like a 4850 for $20 or a 4870 for what, like $40, you can get a 460 for $60. Why would you get an APU when you can get absurdly powerful GPUs for used or on geeks.com? And yea, used, there is a slight risk in used, but a 4850 for $20, I don't see the risk in that...

Not to say buy an i3 (garbage until they have a k edition), just I think athlon/phenom ii is better. or i suppose you mean form factor, in which case haswell should introduce interesting stuff for igpu systems i think.
I bet most people who bought FX spent more than I did on my system with an i7-3770K. As for the FX 6xxx, 4xxx, pretty sure I have way more than double the performance for less than double the cost.

There is no 'i'm not rich' argument to buy with AMD. Just like with any motherboard, you have to pay for a decent VRM so a good motherboard, for either AMD or Intel, is going to cost you at least $100 without being on sale. As for the CPU, there's such a little price difference in the i5/i7 and the FX-8xxx while the performance gap in the two for gaming, overclocking, power consumption, and IPC is so huge that there's no value to be had in the FX-8xxx unless you are doing professional level compute workloads of a multi-threaded nature.

Phenom II being head to head and even beating the FX in single-threaded applications and gaming just the FX chips a joke for gaming or general usage. All of these chips are absurdly overpowered though, and are all good chips. Just buying an FX chip on 32nm is a lot like just buying Nehalem instead of Ivy Bridge, DDR2 instead of DDR3.

after reading that i dont get why people suggest the fx piledriver cpus when they still get beaten by the phemon which i got a x4 955 and gaming wise i think people with a phemon should just keep it untill steamroller comes if it ever comes.
Edited by skitz9417 - 3/15/13 at 8:25pm
post #145 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared2608 View Post

Since the the Phenom 2 series is no longer in production, RMA etc will not be easy. Of course if you buy second hand that's not a problem, but I honestly would not recommend a Phenom 2 anymore. The FX PD series are more than capable of doing what most people need them to do.

You just buy another second hand Phenom 2, I don't see the problem. Paying $80+ for AM3+ is a joke. And all of these chips are way overkill for what most people here are even doing. You go to any computer technician, any computer repair shop, and ask them about haswell, 3570k vs 8350, they will have no clue what you are even talking about. People just don't need that sort of power anymore.

I mean I'd say the Phenom II X4 is the best buy for a CPU right now, really. I only got an i7 because I look at my computer as an investment, I plan to sell it soon and got a great price on these parts, I'll be able to turn a huge profit on it.
Quote:
Just built a computer for my brother using a FX-6300 and he loves it!

Right, anyone would love a Pentium or an Athlon II X4 as well. These chips are all absurdly powerful and the general enthusiast gamer won't be able to tell the difference. But for the few of us that do actually need the hardware, and when talking about which is better, Intel is generally better. Now FX Piledriver is definitely better in certain applications, but it's only for professional level, very specific applications, not gaming, not general usage.

But the problem is people buy an FX chip, and go around saying they love it and how awesome it is. Yea, it is awesome, but so is a Pentium. The problem is you paid way too much money for too little performance in the applications you use it for. Pretty sure your brother wouldn't be able to tell if someone threw an Athlon in his computer either.
Quote:
The new APU's are awesome for HTPC machines.

I used to think so, but I don't think so anymore. You can buy something like a 4850 for $20 or a 4870 for what, like $40, you can get a 460 for $60. Why would you get an APU when you can get absurdly powerful GPUs for used or on geeks.com? And yea, used, there is a slight risk in used, but a 4850 for $20, I don't see the risk in that...

Not to say buy an i3 (garbage until they have a k edition), just I think athlon/phenom ii is better. or i suppose you mean form factor, in which case haswell should introduce interesting stuff for igpu systems i think.
Quote:
Heck I broke 4.4Ghz with a FX-6100 with a DKII. I like both. I choose AMD because of the price. I'm not semi-rich like some of you all. It performs up to my standard and for what I want/need it to do.

I bet most people who bought FX spent more than I did on my system with an i7-3770K. As for the FX 6xxx, 4xxx, pretty sure I have way more than double the performance for less than double the cost.

There is no 'i'm not rich' argument to buy with AMD. Just like with any motherboard, you have to pay for a decent VRM so a good motherboard, for either AMD or Intel, is going to cost you at least $100 without being on sale. As for the CPU, there's such a little price difference in the i5/i7 and the FX-8xxx while the performance gap in the two for gaming, overclocking, power consumption, and IPC is so huge that there's no value to be had in the FX-8xxx unless you are doing professional level compute workloads of a multi-threaded nature.

Phenom II being head to head and even beating the FX in single-threaded applications and gaming just the FX chips a joke for gaming or general usage. All of these chips are absurdly overpowered though, and are all good chips. Just buying an FX chip on 32nm is a lot like just buying Nehalem instead of Ivy Bridge, DDR2 instead of DDR3.

I'll just cut this into sections.

1: No, there is no reason to buy Ph II anymore, between Trinity and the 4300, there's no reason to go with the outdated hardware.

If you're going for true budget, you aren't going AM3+ anyway, you're going FM2.

MicrocCenter knows well enough, and as for "most" computer repair shops, that's because the majority are not computer people at all. Why would you even bring this up?

Ph II is far from the best buy. See line 1.


2: A Pentium and Athlon II also won't last long.

And yes, an Enthusiest gamer would be able to tell the difference, stop making things up.

Not going to respond to the rest, because even you know it's crap.


3: Gee, I don't know, Power consumption? Noise? Size? Heat? Everything else that's a factor in HTPC that isn't in normal desktops?

HD4000 can't even keep up with Llano, I guarantee you Haswell is not catching up to Richland (now), Kabini (summer), or Kaveri (winter). Plus, even at is stands now, the cheapest chip with HD4000 is $144. Trinity's biggest chip is what, $130 on newegg? And you don't even need an A10 to kick intel out of the park.


4: No one cares what you got your system for if no one else can duplicate it, but as it stands you can get a 8320 and 970a-UD3 (new) from MicroCenter for $210. That's cheaper then just a 3770k from the same place. You can knock that down to $170 if you get the board openbox, which makes it even cheaper then just a 3570k also from MicroCenter.

Of course, if you got all your parts second hand, then why don't you compare the cost of the FX chips second hand?


The rest is just you having no idea where anything stands if you think Intel can OC higher or that Ph II can even pray to match FX, so there's really no point in trying to convince you. It would be nice if you stopped spreading misinformation though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skitz9417 View Post

after reading that i dont get why people suggest the fx piledriver cpus when they still get beaten by the phemon which i got a x4 955 and gaming wise i think people with a phemon should just keep it untill steamroller comes if it ever comes.

Because they don't. He's just either outdated, still thinking of BD, or has an agenda.
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post #146 of 358
He's not joking. RV770 is a lil' bit slower/faster than the A10-5800k and chews MOAR power as the a10-5800k does on a whole (CPU+GPU)
APUs are extremely attractive because it's a small package, you only need a decently sized heatsink (Stock works.) and you don't need a PCI-E slot or a extra PCI-E connector
I have a HD4830 that puts out more pixels/texels but the A10-5800k's GPU will OC much better than mine will ever do
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post #147 of 358
Quote:
1: No, there is no reason to buy Ph II anymore, between Trinity and the 4300, there's no reason to go with the outdated hardware.

Why would you go with trinity? Phenom X4 + 460 is cheaper than trinity, AM3 is cheaper than FM2. Maybe if you had a problem with used hardware or geeks.com but with such a cheapo build it'd be silly to buy new anyways. And 4300 instead of a Phenom x4, is that a joke? Phenom X4 crushes the 4300 in multi-threaded applications in the same way that it crushes the i3. The only reason you'd buy AMD over i3 or Pentium is specifically because of how strong AMD is for the same price point at multi-threaded tasks.

You can't stream on an i3, but you can on a Phenom X4. But no a 4300 though... Games, general applications, i3, 4300, phenom ii x4, fx 8350, are all pretty much the same in performance, but the phenom x4 is cheaper than all of them. Especially when you consider a high quality am3 board is cheaper than am3+/fm2.
Quote:
2: A Pentium and Athlon II also won't last long.

And yes, an Enthusiest gamer would be able to tell the difference, stop making things up.

Not going to respond to the rest, because even you know it's crap.

A pentium and athlon ii will both last a long time for gaming. Are you going to tell me an fx 4300 is going to last longer? Yea right. Enthusiast gamer playing his Counter strike or whatever game isn't going to notice. There may be a few games they'll notice, like BF3 64 man or Crysis 3, but besides the newest and most intensive games, like the millions and millions of people who play less intensive games - starcraft, lol, dota, hon, wow, rift, counter strikes, etc ad nauesum, no, they will not notice.

It is not crap, I would appreciate it if you kept the argument civil instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks. If you can explain to me how an i5-3570K at 5ghz is going to be appreciated by someone playing WoW or the thousands of games on steam marketplace, please, tell me. Even the most intensive games like Crysis 3 are more about the GPU than CPU anyways.
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HD4000 can't even keep up with Llano, I guarantee you Haswell is not catching up to Richland (now), Kabini (summer), or Kaveri (winter). Plus, even at is stands now, the cheapest chip with HD4000 is $144. Trinity's biggest chip is what, $130 on newegg? And you don't even need an A10 to kick intel out of the park.

AMD's APUs are great for size-conscious small power builds, of course. And haswell will be far ahead of AMDs APUs for CPU power, so there will be plenty of cpu-intensive games that make haswell better than APU. This isn't something I don't think anyone has any disagreement on though. If you can manage to fit a GPU, I think a cheap AMD CPU + cheap GPU like a 4850 is a better way to go than APU though.
Quote:
: No one cares what you got your system for if no one else can duplicate it, but as it stands you can get a 8320 and 970a-UD3 (new) from MicroCenter for $210. That's cheaper then just a 3770k from the same place. You can knock that down to $170 if you get the board openbox, which makes it even cheaper then just a 3570k also from MicroCenter.

i7-3770k is absurd, you would be silly to buy that for gaming, which is not why I got my i7. My Athlon II system was more than powerful enough for my needs (and I did things way more intensive than gaming, I do tons of streaming), this i7 system is simply an investment and less of a logical purchase for my needs and more of a money maker.

You can get the i5-3570K for $180, than get a motherboard for $80 on sale, if not much cheaper, from microcenter. The problem is that the FX chip might be a bit cheaper, but the i5 is going to double it in performance in most applications. Suddenly there is no 'budget' or value in the FX chip.

Now the Phenom is a great budget buy, it's something like half the performance but 1/3rd the price, so that's a great value.
Quote:
Of course, if you got all your parts second hand, then why don't you compare the cost of the FX chips second hand?

Weren't you just talking open box? And nothing in my build is second hand except the RAM, which I bought for a higher price than brand new.
Quote:
The rest is just you having no idea where anything stands if you think Intel can OC higher or that Ph II can even pray to match FX, so there's really no point in trying to convince you. It would be nice if you stopped spreading misinformation though.

I never said Intel can OC higher. I said Intel can OC better. An 8ghz overclock is useless if you are talking single core (a reference to both FX and Celeron). Intel overclocks much better than FX in the sense that 4.5-5ghz on Intel is much stronger than 5ghz+ on FX.

Phenom ii more than prays to match FX, it beats it in some applications, which is sad.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/362?vs=697

You can go on and on about how these benches are inaccurate and terrible but the fact that the chips come so neck and neck so consistently makes it insane to buy the FX for double price of Phenom for anything other extremely niche, price conscious, professional applications used on a professional level.
Quote:
Because they don't. He's just either outdated, still thinking of BD, or has an agenda.

Because they do. FX has a lot of potential but not anywhere near the price it's being sold for currently. This is coming from someone who has owned FX, Phenom, and multiple Intel chips, and has built many more systems with all of them.

Like I said, both chips have their place, it is not so black and white as people make it out to be. But people like you who claim that FX is just a better buy, or Intel just the better buy, are the one with an agenda and total bias. There's a place and price for everything, but when it comes to gaming, general usage applications, and overclocking, Intel destroys FX and Phenom II cleans up anything left.

BF3 is one of the few games that FX might have a leg to stand on vs Intel though, but I haven't seen any proper comparisons when both chips were overclocked, which throws a wrench in everything and pretty much makes all the available benches useless.
Edited by Belial - 3/16/13 at 11:31am
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post #148 of 358
According to Anandtech's benchmarks, the A10-5800K and the PH 2 965 BE are pretty closely matched. As are the FX-4300 and 965 BE. In the few gaming benchmarks that are listed in the comparison the FX-4300 is faster than the 965BE. Then, for not much more than the 4300 you get the 6300 which is superior to the PH2 in all aspects. This is before you OC them, and the FX chips will OC further than the Phenoms will. So, they might cost a bit more but they come with a warranty, so again, I see no reason to recommend the Phenom 2 anymore.
post #149 of 358
A10-5800K, FX-8320 and/or FX-8350 on sale, only recent (Piledriver) AMD chips worth anything.
toss the rest in the trash...

I should have kept my 980BE and my 1100T as they will be collectors one day.
anyone with a FX-Bulldozer and not Pilerdriver, you can throw ALL those away.
post #150 of 358
I'd say FX-8350/8320/6300 and all unlocked quad FM2 processors (A10-5800k/A8-5600k/Athlon II X4 750k) are great cpus for the money.
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