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Are AMD CPUs really THAT bad as people say? - Page 19  

post #181 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I don't think i ever mentioned intel. I was talking about this:

Stock clocked chips
No Ivy Bridge chips
I rate this a 0/10

look at that price to performance of the 3970X, though. It performs that much better than a 3930k for only $400 more. tongue.gif

Easy enough to guess where Ivy would be; add between 5-10% to the score of their Sandy counterparts.

As for overclocking, FX scales almost linearly all the way up to 5.2Ghz (98% scaling), so just use math.
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post #182 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Stock clocked chips
No Ivy Bridge chips
I rate this a 0/10

look at that price to performance of the 3970X, though. It performs that much better than a 3930k for only $400 more. tongue.gif

Stock is relevant and the focus is FX vs phenom, backing my claim that FX offers huge increase on minimum frames over its father. I'd expect o/c FX vs o/c phenom to even increase the delta.
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post #183 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Easy enough to guess where Ivy would be; add between 5-10% to the score of their Sandy counterparts.

As for overclocking, FX scales almost linearly all the way up to 5.2Ghz (98% scaling), so just use math.
that's not really an excuse for not benching them overclocked. Rough estimates of overclocked results are not something I'd like to base a purchase on.
post #184 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Stock clocked chips
No Ivy Bridge chips
I rate this a 0/10

look at that price to performance of the 3970X, though. It performs that much better than a 3930k for only $400 more. tongue.gif

Stock is relevant and the focus is FX vs phenom, backing my claim that FX offers huge increase on minimum frames over its father. I'd expect oc FX to even increase the delta.
post #185 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Easy enough to guess where Ivy would be; add between 5-10% to the score of their Sandy counterparts.

As for overclocking, FX scales almost linearly all the way up to 5.2Ghz (98% scaling), so just use math.
that's not really an excuse for not benching them overclocked. Rough estimates of overclocked results are not something I'd like to base a purchase on.

Look at the motherboards in question. The fact that FX chips were used at all is a miracle, OCing them would kill the board.
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post #186 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Look at the motherboards in question. The fact that FX chips were used at all is a miracle, OCing them would kill the board.
so... it's like a product guide for very misguided customers?
post #187 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

The price of FX is just a joke when Phenom performs very similarly for nearly half the price, for gaming and general usage. Single thread is all that matters for the vast majority of even enthusiast users. Like I said, for certain multi-threaded, specialist applications executed on a professional level (ie photoshop performance of fx vs phenom vs intel doesn't matter if you are just doing it for web design which isn't going to be very cpu intensive) can be favorable for price to FX (but still, not for pure performance).

For the vast majority of people here who just game and do general usage, Phenom II is a way better value than FX, and Intel is a better value than FX too. BF3 is the only mainstream program where the value of FX might be considerable over Intel, but that's not even for sure as no benchmark has compared overclocked FX vs i5.

And then in every other way, FX is just worse than Ivy Bridge - power consumption, super i/o, IMC, architecture...
That's a joke in every way. YOU saying FX is worse than the 965 BE. FX4300 costs 111$. Fair enough. 965 BE costs 94.98$ but is also 30W higher TDP (OR in actual power consumption half times more) and can dream on about clocking as high as FX even though PD's IPC is lower by a tiny bit

And besides, why couldn't you pick a 970 Mobo? It's not like they can't OC. Just get a good 970 mobo although having done that already one might as well buy a B75M mobo with a i5-3350 and be done with a HD7770 Vapor-X if 666$ is the budget

Do you see me recommending PII? I don't. do you see me recommending FX? Probably not. I recommend IVB for obvious reasons even after defending Piledriver to death (I literally did on another forum)
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post #188 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Oh, you mean AVX that intel does much better? You want to get into instruction sets, really? And software like games isn't going to be taking advantage of that.

I don't think i ever mentioned intel. I was talking about this:



on a crappy board made for phenoms as well.

Oh yeah since you mentioned intel.Pentium is imho glorified garbage- bench it in a real life scenario, where you actually game with your less than ideal windows install and all sorts of process running (from webcam and skype to addons/widget etc) and see how it fares. Intel has the best processors. But they are found much much higher in the food chain.
Quote:
As a drop-in upgrade, and using existing components, then AMD makes a lot of sense. Want just a new CPU and mobo, and already have good components? Then the FX is going to save you $$ and you're getting great performance for the money. Specific needs aside, I really think this whole value debate depends on where the specific consumer is coming from.

That's a terrible benchmark (not to mention Crysis3 is one of the few games where AMD is close to Intel). A stock benchmark is quite useless. Not to mention you are looking at a 40% overclock on Intel vs 25% on FX when you get both to ~5ghz, at which point Intel will be way ahead of FX.

There's no such thing as a 'drop in upgrade' for CPU/mobo. If you are lucky, a socket lasts 2 generations, but then there's a new chipset so you are sacrificing features, and, it's very rarely worth upgrading just to the next generation. It would be silly to buy an i3, and then buy an i5 or i7 of the same generation, or to buy an FX 4300 and then an 8350 later on.

The Phenom is similar in price and performance to the Pentium, I don't know why you would go on about how it's 'garbage'. It's just a budget chip. By the same definition the FX chips are 'garbage' (and given their price, they kinda are garbage really). Yes, Intel is much higher in the food chain, I think it would be silly to compare the Phenom/AMD to the i5/i7 when that's not the case, it would be more far to compare the Phenom to the Pentium, maybe an i3 if you add overclocking and heatsink costs.

But FX chips are on par with the Pentium and i3 in single-threaded performance, which is the big problem. Games and general usage is all about single threaded performance, so why is there even a conversation here? It's quite simple, FX chips are terrible for general usage and gaming. Phenom II is a way better value chip with the same single threaded performance, and Intel is a way stronger chip for a similar price with superior performance.
Quote:
@Belial: When you can actually find a new 980BE, THEN you can call on it for benchmarks. As it stands, the 965BE is the best you can get new, and if you're talking used, then you need to consider the price of FX used as well.

I know it's hard to understand, but the 955 and 980 are actually both "Deneb", they are the exact same CPU. The only difference in the two is their stock configurations. When overclocked they both go to the same 4-4.2ghz (c3 revision, 955 has some c2's). 980 is a bit more accurate because it's closer to where these chips overclock to.
Quote:
Easy enough to guess where Ivy would be; add between 5-10% to the score of their Sandy counterparts.

As for overclocking, FX scales almost linearly all the way up to 5.2Ghz (98% scaling), so just use math.

As does Ivy, and all chips - using the math, 37 x 1.61 Overclock (5ghz from 3.3) x 1.1 (IB > SB), you got 65fps on IB i5, and only 61 on FX (5.2ghz from 4, 47 x 1.3). Do the maths.
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post #189 of 358
Quote:
That's a joke in every way. YOU saying FX is worse than the 965 BE. FX4300 costs 111$. Fair enough. 965 BE costs 94.98$ but is also 30W higher TDP (OR in actual power consumption half times more) and can dream on about clocking as high as FX even though PD's IPC is lower by a tiny bit

More like $65-85 depending where you buy from, no way is it $95 lol. FX will of course overclock higher but I'm not going to pay $100 more for for the performance boost of basically what, 800mhz given the reduced IPC? If I'm going to spend more than a Phenom, get an i5 for $150 more total. Then there was that sale of $99 SBs rather recently at MC.
Quote:
And besides, why couldn't you pick a 970 Mobo? It's not like they can't OC. Just get a good 970 mobo although having done that already one might as well buy a B75M mobo with a i5-3350 and be done with a HD7770 Vapor-X if 666$ is the budget

Do you see me recommending PII? I don't. do you see me recommending FX? Probably not. I recommend IVB for obvious reasons even after defending Piledriver to death (I literally did on another forum)

Phenom II is a great budget chip, $65-85 for a cpu and ~$30-50 for a motherboard. But over $110 for any FX chip and over $80-100 for a motherboard (doesnt matter if some boards are sold for cheap, microcenter sells low end Z77 for $20 if you want to go on about cheap, for a half decent board you still need to pay $100), no thanks, the performance increase is insignificant. Just go with an intel, in that case the performance increase over phenom ii is quite significant.
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post #190 of 358
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post


A pentium and athlon ii will both last a long time for gaming. Are you going to tell me an fx 4300 is going to last longer? Yea right. Enthusiast gamer playing his Counter strike or whatever game isn't going to notice. There may be a few games they'll notice, like BF3 64 man or Crysis 3, but besides the newest and most intensive games, like the millions and millions of people who play less intensive games - starcraft, lol, dota, hon, wow, rift, counter strikes, etc ad nauesum, no, they will not notice.

It is not crap, I would appreciate it if you kept the argument civil instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks. If you can explain to me how an i5-3570K at 5ghz is going to be appreciated by someone playing WoW or the thousands of games on steam marketplace, please, tell me. Even the most intensive games like Crysis 3 are more about the GPU than CPU anyways.

Sorry man, WoW is a bad example to pick and some other MMORPGs are similar in that regard. WoW is poorly optimized when it comes to number of threads, but it it's heavy cpu bound and will see great improvements using an i5 3570k OC'd over a pentium or anything with considerably lower IPC.

From anand's review.
Quote:
World of Warcraft
Our WoW test is run at High quality settings on a lightly populated server in an area where no other players are present to produce repeatable results. We ran at 1680 x 1050.

And that's in a low populated area, higher pop zones and raid encounters even my 3930k at 4.5ghz can't mantain 60 FPS due to poor thread optimization, one thread will sky rocket at 100% or so.
Take this SS in org for example, GPU usage was under 60% while one of my threads was being fully utilized...you can be sure if my CPU was a pentium or even a core2duo the FPS loss would be noticeable.



Edit: Just to add a real life perspective, when I changed systems I kept my GPU, a gtx 460 at the time. I went from an i7 930 stock to an i7 3930k @4.4ghz with the same GPU and the FPS gain in major cities/raids was really noticiable.
Edited by DMHernandez - 3/16/13 at 3:35pm
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Warchief
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