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[Escapist] EA Admits That SimCity Could Have Been Offline - Page 12

post #111 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

And whether or not how minor those differences would be is irrelevant as well, it's a done deal. The game has no single player and I love that fact wink.gif Makes many people quite mad.

SimCity 2013 is the ultimate tragedy in that it is a game that tries to satisfy both spectrum of the modern gaming sphere - fulfill both social interaction demands and realistic simulation and failing to accomplish either - the true definition of "jack of all trades, but master of none".
Edited by M1sT3rM4n - 3/16/13 at 1:40pm
post #112 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

lachen.gif

Right on cue.

They lied mate. You are the only person,m it seems, on the entire internet who thinks not.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130312/15405822302/maxis-insider-ea-lying-about-needing-servers-single-player-simcity.shtml

Actually, he's not the only person. I also agree with him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Just an OCN poster and ... he isn't. biggrin.gif

What's your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

The best part is that not one of you has actually formulated any kind of argument against what I said.

Would be nice if you could reply to the content of my post and not just attack me instead.

I'm not holding my breath but w/e.

Edit: So the only way you can reply is to attack me some more instead of addressing the actual argument. Says it all tbh.

Good ol' ad-hominem. It never gets old.

Actually, they have 'formed an argument', it's just that they're arbitrarily choosing one of two possible interpretations and asserting that their arbitrary interpretation is the only one possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

^ There is little point in even trying to make you see sense. We all know this too well. We could try, but you'd do circles and then try to insinuate all manner of things rolleyes.gif Try someone who isn't used to your bull.

It's EA. They're in the wrong, again, and you refuse to see it and are defending them.

In other news, the sun rises.

I'm no fan of EA whatsoever, and I certainly have no particular inclination to side w/Grizzle as a matter of principle. I *do* however, have principles in general, and I believe as Grizzle believes in this particular case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

EA didn't lie...they stretched the truth biggrin.gif

Actually, I think it's most accurate to say that they were 'not entirely forthcoming'. To me, that's not the same as lying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

No they didn't, they were writing/speaking fiction.

Yeah ... Well, I disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

A car with a smashed windscreen and the lack of ability to utilise gear 5 "works".

A cooker that only has three out of five burners "works".

But you could never try to call the person doing your yearly check up a "liar" if he pointed out that it doesn't work PROPERLY.

At the moment, the servers control all region play and game saving, which is why his mod does not allow region play or game saving. It doesn't work PROPERLY.

A fairly good analogy. I have another one coming up thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkboy View Post

Add him to ignore and move on folks, there's no reason to derail the thread because someone can't see reason. EA is already getting killed in the media and forums across the net so isn't that what really matters. biggrin.gif

Grizzle is not derailing the thread, his argument is perfectly on topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shpongle View Post

Honestly, Grizzle is right (I never thought I'd say that). Without having the servers there to allow your city to interact with the other cities, the game wouldn't be working the way they wanted it to work. it's simply a difference in the way gamers and the publishers wanted the game to play. And the publishers never lied about the servers being a requirement for their vision of the game.

Yup ... pretty much what we're arguing here. The 'internet' is interpreting the phrase 'the game' to mean 'the city (lets call it the 'client') portion that runs locally on one's PC', whereas it's perfectly logical to ME (and Grizzle, and you apparently) that when Ms. Bradshaw spoke about 'the game', she meant 'the game as the makers have envisioned it, a GROUP of cities, with complex/extensive 'regional' calculations (in their vision, this is based on actual input from 100's or 1000's of connected client cities) that, in turn, impact and interact with all the individual Cities".

EA are asserting that in order for the game to FUNCTION AS THEY ENVISION, people being connected online is 'required'. They're asserting that to change this would require a large amount of work on their part.

This is not difficult to imagine, because it would mean they'd have to a) rewrite both server-side and client-side code to allow flexible operation from either remote server OR the local 'regional' server machine, b) rewrite the 'local regional' code to 'scale' based on an unknown amount of local pc resources, and most importantly c) entirely change the 'source' for the data for the regional calculations.

Presently, the data source (I'd guess) is based on data collection from actual clients/cities running out there in the world. To make an 'offline' version, it would have to be re-written to a process that's much more 'random' in nature, i.e. one that DOESN'T require this input from 100's or 1000's of interconnected clients. The source data has to just be 'made up'. This would mean a radical change to the code, tons of testing time, etc. A major undertaking IOW.

Based on EA/Maxis interpretation of 'what the game is', we have no evidence (yet) that 'they lied'. It's only based on 'the internet's interpretation of the game' as being ONLY the city/client portion of the game, that makes Ms. Bradshaw's statement 'a lie'.

IOW, to me, asserting that 'they lied' outright is based on an arbitrary interpretation of what constitutes 'the game'. And AFAIC, EA/Maxis are the rightful ones to decide 'what the game is', not the gamers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

END OF DISCUSSION about what Maxis could have done. They ADMITTED they could have made the game with an offline mode. That, right there, completely contradicts (ie is a LIE) what she said before about your computer not having the computing power and thus HAD to be online connected to their servers.

Anyone who can't even admit that EA lied about that is either an EA employee, a troll, or hopelessly stupid.

I guess I'm hopelessly stupid then, because I'm positive I'm neither of the other two options. I would ask, though, that you show me where EA asserted that it was NEVER IN THEIR POWER to have made an offline mode for this game? Because from all I've seen, they've stated that it would require a lot of work NOW, to CREATE an 'offline mod' ... for the game that they've ALREADY MADE.

**********
Now, let me lay out an analogy for you all that rather perfectly describes the situation at hand, IMHO

Say Fred has a girlfriend across town, and Fred makes a date with her, and she asks if he's going to come round and pick her up for the date. And Fred tells her "I can't, I don't have a car". She arrives at Fred's house to pick him up, and discovers Fred's car sitting there in the driveway. She explodes with rage, calling Fred a 'liar'. Fred explains that he told her a couple days ago that his car massively overheated on the way home from work, that he thinks the head-gasket is blown, and that it's going to take him a month to save up the money to get it fixed.

In this scenario, Maxis/EA is the dude with the car, and the 'internet', including Rubers, Knucklehead, Andrews, etc, are the aggro girlfriend tongue.gif

In reality, yes, Fred/EA was not technically 100% accurate in their account. You could perhaps argue that they were not entirely forthright.

However, Fred ALREADY DID inform his girlfriend exactly what the situation was (as Grizzle has posted evidence of, as far as a year ago, wherein Ms. Bradshaw said your city can run locally w/o a connection to the server, for a period of time), and in a similar vein, anyone who's 'in the know' at all about cars would understand that a blown head gasket means the car is undrivable. And it's not uncommon for someone to say they 'don't have a car', when what they really mean is that their car is not drivable, for whatever reason. This is a similar scenario. It's more like a misunderstanding than a lie.

"The internet", and the people on this thread, are basically insisting that the ONLY interpretation is that of the aggro chick. However, other, perfectly reasonable people like myself (and in this case, GB), are on Fred's side in this argument. In our opinion, it's not really his fault that his girlfriend doesn't understand cars, or common vernacular wink.gif

Edit: Ooops, just realized that this thread was locked. Not entirely sure why, I'll look into it thumb.gif
Edited by brettjv - 3/17/13 at 3:42pm
    
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post #113 of 150
Reopening for further discussion ...

Edit: for reals, this time wink.gif

At least until 5entinel yells at me for doing so biggrin.gif
Edited by brettjv - 3/17/13 at 3:37pm
    
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post #114 of 150
From what I've read regarding the trivial nature of server-client communications during offline play a better analogy would be Fred taking a blowtorch to his engine,
causing it to overheat, so that he wouldn't have to pick up his girlfriend later in the week. He still didn't lie but his girlfriend has proper reasons to be angry.

At this point it's all semantics I guess, EA claims creating an offline mode capable of inter-city play would require massive amounts of work, massive having no real definition we'll see how far modders get the following weeks.

I doubt anyone is trying to say EA previously claimed making an offline mode was impossible, now confirming their lie by stating it merely requires a large amount of work.
Rather, the seemingly overstated nature of what's happening on their servers seems to make people angry.
Not telling a lie, while technically being truthful, is not the same as telling a relevant truth.

(This is all assuming the articles on rockpapershotgun are truthful, I don't own or am interested in SimCity, just an opinion on the controversy.)
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post #115 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Ambrio View Post

From what I've read regarding the trivial nature of server-client communications during offline play a better analogy would be Fred taking a blowtorch to his engine,
causing it to overheat, so that he wouldn't have to pick up his girlfriend later in the week. He still didn't lie but his girlfriend has proper reasons to be angry.

At this point it's all semantics I guess, EA claims creating an offline mode capable of inter-city play would require massive amounts of work, massive having no real definition we'll see how far modders get the following weeks.

I doubt anyone is trying to say EA previously claimed making an offline mode was impossible, now confirming their lie by stating it merely requires a large amount of work.
Rather, the seemingly overstated nature of what's happening on their servers seems to make people angry.
Not telling a lie, while technically being truthful, is not the same as telling a relevant truth.

(This is all assuming the articles on rockpapershotgun are truthful, I don't own or am interested in SimCity, just an opinion on the controversy.)

Thank you!
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post #116 of 150
EA said a user's PC was not capable of making all the calculations of what the sims were doing, thus making the servers necessary. If the latest is true then, not only can an entire city be run on a user's PC, but an entire region can, thus making that claim untrue. How is this not a lie? There is no play on semantics.

It's short and sweet, cut and dry.
It's a lie.

(poetry?)
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post #117 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

Actually, he's not the only person. I also agree with him.
What's your point?
....snipped

You do make a good point, but, what about the modder that was using the debug menu, and the whole fiasco that none of the simulation is actually done on the server? Ignoring what bradshaw said, everyone was told that the game in its current form would not be run-able (which in my interpretation means to work at all, the game/simulation anyways) and this has been, as of when this post was written, has been proven false. The only things the servers handle is really save data, and the connection between clients for the multiplayer functionality. Please correct on more sources if im wrong, thiese forums really do have some fired up people lol XD
post #118 of 150
Cleaned and reopened

It would be appreciated if everyone could stop picking on grizzleboy and accusing him of being a "fanboy", EA "defender" or working for EA because he's neither of those.

Thought I set things straight here


Now, carry on with the conversation.
post #119 of 150
Quote:
lie
  Use Lie in a sentence
lie
1 [lahy] Show IPA . noun, verb, lied, ly·ing.
noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. Synonyms: prevarication, falsification. Antonyms: truth.
2.
something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.
an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

ea and maxis knew the game could be run on a users computer, a modder has shown that it can...

they lied about the true need for their servers. that need was drm...

a lie is a lie no matter how you dress it up.
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post #120 of 150
This video sums it all up really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SPMmE04NB8E
     
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