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[Tom's Hardware] Core i7-4770K: Haswell's Performance, Previewed - Page 34

post #331 of 571
This thread is real gold. Intel could release a CPU that only offered better working turbo and the Intel guys would still buy it, overclock it to a lower frequency than what they could have gotten last generation, and then think they did well, all the while praising Intel.

I may like AMD but I can at least call AMD products crappy when they are. If Steamroller was a 5% to 7% CPU increase you can bet I'd be upset and I wouldn't be talking about some crappy GPU or power consumption when that means nothing to me. I've literally alternated between Intel and AMD platforms my entire life. To call me a fanboy is ridiculous and a meaningless ad hominem attack. Before the Opty 165 rig in my sig I had a bunch of P4s.

We are enthusiasts. You are talking about how the iGPU on Haswell will allow for entry level gaming? And you're talking about it being a good fall back? You really don't have spare graphics cards laying around? Or you constantly are doing something like flashing BIOS and having it go bad?

There was a 5% increase in performance from IB to Haswell in LAME. How can any enthusiast want to upgrade to that or even justify that? Specially when the company making this is talking about sticking desktop users with this kind of performance increase for the next 2 years, either because Broadwell will be another "it just turbos 6 to 10% better" die shrink or we won't even get Broadwell.

For the love of god, can you guys please wake up and realize that Intel is killing the enthusiast desktop more than anyone else. They're going to stick us with a marginal upgrade for the next 2 years and then whine that no one buys desktop CPUs anymore.

Most importantly everyone is giving Intel a free pass here. If 8970 or GTX 780 is only 5% faster, would you guys still defend it like you are now?

This thread, I don't know if I should laugh at the justifications being given for a 5% to 7% increase in performance or the irrational people talking about buying a new motherboard + $200 CPU for a 7% upgrade at best or if I should just start buying enthusiasts level parts in the next year because there won't be an enthusiast market 3 years from now.

We all needed parts from Intel that gave 2600k and 3570k owners a reason to upgrade. The desktop market is dying because there's not a big enough difference between overclocked Nehalem and Haswell to justify a platform swap. We're boned and some of you guys just want to sit here and justify the way things are. I don't care what it does to AMD. The enthusiast market is shrinking because people on 5 year old Nehalems don't need to upgrade, so all of those enthusiasts are customers gone out the window.

Do you honestly think that Intel just decided to not improve performance? AMD is catching up very quickly. ARM is catching up very quickly.

http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Galaxy-S-4-quick-benches-fixed.001.png

Look at that improvement in ARM. For the love of all enthusiasts, come out of denial about Intel's situation and realize that the rest of the silicon industry is improving by leaps and bounds while Intel just dumped a 7% increase on top of us for the next 2 years.

Please, tell me of any CPU manufacturer besides Via that sees a 7% increase on a new architecture? This whole "well they're just going for mobile and mainstream!" thing is basically you guys saying "oh, Intel is abandoning us, good for them it's better that way! But Intel's competition blows! I'm so glad to be an enthusiast!"

Relegating overclocking to special unlocked CPUs was Intel giving us the finger. Haswell being a 5% to 7% increase is Intel telling you you're in the friendzone as it walks off with the biggest idiotic douche bag you know of because they have money, while you sit there and go "well good for Intel, they'll be happier that way!"
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post #332 of 571
So cpu performance gains will be like Ivy, barely noticeable and extremely case specific. Does anyone know if Intel will be using the same shoddy TIM they used on Ivy?
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post #333 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

Those benchmarks are close to pointless. Noone is going to be buying Haswell to then play games with integrated graphics. For one, if you're going to compare processors, we need one variable with the rest as controls. Not only is the CPU itself different, but the integrated graphics are also different. I know this is technically apples-to-apples, processor-to-processor, but who's to say what's making most or all of the difference? Secondly, this needs to be tested with discrete cards, or they might as well not bother making charts at all.

what would be the point? No game maxes out an Ivy. It'd be like that benchmark of BF3 on the 3770k stock vs 4.5, same fps because BF3 uses all cores well

I guess a really unoptimized game like Planetside 2
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post #334 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

Those benchmarks are close to pointless. Noone is going to be buying Haswell to then play games with integrated graphics. For one, if you're going to compare processors, we need one variable with the rest as controls. Not only is the CPU itself different, but the integrated graphics are also different. I know this is technically apples-to-apples, processor-to-processor, but who's to say what's making most or all of the difference? Secondly, this needs to be tested with discrete cards, or they might as well not bother making charts at all.

The only good ones are the CPU only ones. The gaming ones are soft ball benchmarks like AMD runs with their APUs, so they can go "look at our new product it's 40% faster! ZOMG"
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post #335 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

I think it was bigger then 20% form P4 to Core 2 Duo. More like 50-60%. A Core 2 Duo E6300 was faster then the fasted Pentium D.

0_0 damn... that much? Haswell looks so small now compared to that... improvement wise. No wonder we're not excited too much.
     
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post #336 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z Overlord View Post

what would be the point? No game maxes out an Ivy. It'd be like that benchmark of BF3 on the 3770k stock vs 4.5, same fps because BF3 uses all cores well

I guess a really unoptimized game like Planetside 2
starcraft 2. Pretty much any RTS with large numbers of units for that matter.
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post #337 of 571
SC2 shows linear returns on average FPS with CPU strengh and greater than linear on minimum FPS, yet the best CPU's at stock (3570k) dont have better than 30fps minimums. It's gonna be around for a very long time, at least 5 years in mainstream esports maybe 10.
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post #338 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

starcraft 2. Pretty much any RTS with large numbers of units for that matter.

I finished HotS on a dual core Wolfsdale, never seen any slowdown. (Thought I must admit I slowed down my GFX card to half to reduce power consumption. It was enough to run it with textures at ultra and decent AF at 65 FPS.) If there is something that's causing slowdowns, it would be related to internet connection, I played it offline.
post #339 of 571
Mmmm looks good. I planned on upgrading to Haswell anyways but this seals the deal.
   
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post #340 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

0_0 damn... that much? Haswell looks so small now compared to that... improvement wise. No wonder we're not excited too much.

Well, P4 had a significant decrease in IPC from P3, and the C2Ds are based off of the P3s with higher clock speeds and higher IPC. P4 was a lot like the Bulldozer disaster, only significantly worse in that Intel wasn't really able to make the design better, and found that improving P3 yielded better gains.
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