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[Tom's Hardware] Core i7-4770K: Haswell's Performance, Previewed - Page 47

post #461 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt View Post

I will buy Haswell only if:

-it overclocks to 5Ghz
-it stays under 70-75c @ 5Ghz
Those 2 rather depend on your cooling and the binning of your specific chip.
Especially the second one is dependent on your cooling solution
post #462 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

You mean improved tri-gate wink.gif

Oh dear. Now you reminded me about that scene from Invader Zim. "It's not broken, it's advanced."

I hope for a repaired version, an improved version would be really scary.
post #463 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post

Oh dear. Now you reminded me about that scene from Invader Zim. "It's not broken, it's advanced."

I hope for a repaired version, an improved version would be really scary.
But why repaired there is nothing broken about it...
post #464 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

When intel went from Nehalem to westmere there was no jump in ipc. None at all. All that was gained was better power consumption and temps.

Well, there was AES-NI, which was immediately usable in many apps, and was a huge boost for cryptography performance. Westmere/Gulftown also had a better memory controller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

That's why it was so dramatic from nehalem to sandy bridge.

Nehalem to Sandy wasn't that dramatic, though still a bigger boost in IPC than Sandy to Ivy or Ivy to Haswell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

True, the IB tick was fairly unusual in that there were actual architecture tweaks instead of just the usual die shrink.

There is usually some level of architectural tweaks that come along with die-shrinks. Ivy wasn't particularly unusual in this regard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Where is the tweak? I don't see it on the Die shot which look almost identical except for IGPU getting more room on the die.

You can't see most architectural changes on a die-shot.

Ivy has a better IMC, improved L3 cache, two significant new instructions, and several other tweaks.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4830/intels-ivy-bridge-architecture-exposed/2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonkev666 View Post

The real reason to get Haswell is TSX instruction sets.

TSX looks really promising, but I question as to weather it will be widely adopted before Haswell is replaced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15 View Post


From WiKi..... Or do you honestly believe that a tweaked Pentium 3 kicked AMD's behind?

Core 2 was largely a wider Core, and Core was a heavily tweaked P3.

The P3 was no slouch, and the final incarnations of it were competitive, clock for clock with the original Athlon, and had much higher IPC than the Pentium 4s.

Increase a P3 from three issue to four issue and you explain much of the difference in performance between it and Core 2.

You can still see a little of the PIII in Ivy and Haswell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15 View Post

Its pretty common knowledge that Core 2 was a new architecture

How new is debatable.

It's quite obviously derived from Pentium M/Core and these are quite obviously and directly based on the P6 architecture that was in the PIII.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Knowing toms they used 1600 memory. Haswell is bred for 2666+

DDR3-1333 and 1600 are the most common speeds in circulation and still will be by the time Haswell is out.

Anything over 2133 is extremely rare.
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post #465 of 571
Not just a bump in the clockspeed this time around. Haswell shows a nice improvement.
I have trying to get a i7 970 for cheap (Ivy and Sandy aren't much of an upgrade, if at all) but Haswell might be something I consider for my next build down the road, with a 6 core CPU.
A i7-4930k I believe it would be.
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post #466 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by amstech View Post

Not just a bump in the clockspeed this time around. Haswell shows a nice improvement.
I have trying to get a i7 970 for cheap (Ivy and Sandy aren't much of an upgrade, if at all) but Haswell might be something I consider for my next build down the road, with a 6 core CPU.
A i7-4930k I believe it would be.
My CPU and board together cost me around $240 + tax.
The 3570k is arguably superior to an i7 970. Better single threaded performance clock for clock and similar multithreaded performance. At the same time better OCing potential.
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post #467 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink View Post

My CPU and board together cost me around $240 + tax.
The 3570k is arguably superior to an i7 970. Better single threaded performance clock for clock and similar multithreaded performance. At the same time better OCing potential.

Really? Surely 4 Ivy threads can't be similar to 12 Gulftown threads on multithread performance?
Edited by sherlock - 3/21/13 at 1:45pm
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post #468 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink View Post

My CPU and board together cost me around $240 + tax.
The 3570k is arguably superior to an i7 970. Better single threaded performance clock for clock and similar multithreaded performance. At the same time better OCing potential.
No pun intended but I wouldn't limit myself to a 4core/4 thread CPU.
It would have to be atleast a 4770k.

HT has benefited gaming and system performance for years but now games/apps are grabbing threads however they can get them, the 6 core CPU's put good distance on the 4 core/4 thread CPU's in many games, not as much on the 4 core/8 thread CPUs.
I betcha a i7 970 would compete, maybe even beat a 3570k at the same clock speed, especially in games like Crysis 3 that utilize 6 full threads.

That is a great price on your build though, very nice.




Edited by amstech - 3/21/13 at 2:08pm
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post #469 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Really? Surely 4 Ivy threads can't be similar to 12 Gulftown threads on multithread performance?
I was in error.
I thought that the i7 970 was 4c8t. The 3570k can compete under those terms but not against the 6c12t variants in highly threaded applications.
When using applications that only utilize 4 threads it should be ahead in most circumstances, but after 6 threads or so I would suspect that the 970 would pull ahead.
It would be closer with the 3750k, though it "depends on the application".

Quote:
Originally Posted by amstech View Post

I wouldn't limit myself to a 4core/4 thread CPU.
It would have to be atleast a 4770k.

HT has benefited gaming and system performance for years but now games/apps are grabbing threads however they can get them, the 6 core CPU's put good distance on the 4 core/4 thread CPU's in many games, not as much on the 4 core/8 thread CPUs.

http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1216042/width/350/height/700
http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1255366/width/350/height/700
http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1255367/width/350/height/700
If you compare the 2500 to the 2700 you'll find around a 5% difference. There is more than a 5% difference in clock speed alone if I am not mistaken, threading has very little impact here. I suspect that other factors such as PCI-e lane width and IO controller implementation plays a bigger role here, though I could be wrong.
This holds when comparing the Phenom II x6 and x4 as well. The difference simply isn't there. Other factors are at play.


I feel like reviews need to be done by statisticians who use poisson-regression to hold certain factors constant. It's not perfect but it's better than letting the reader's imagination wander.
For reference, I do data analysis for a living.



I'll also explicitly state my own biases. I tend to buy LESS than I want to buy but at a good price. I then SELL(or give away as a gift) my old systems and upgrade on a fairly regular basis.
Edited by xlink - 3/21/13 at 2:15pm
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post #470 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink View Post


If you compare the 2500 to the 2700 you'll find around a 5% difference. There is more than a 5% difference in clock speed alone if I am not mistaken, threading has very little impact here. I suspect that other factors such as PCI-e lane width and IO controller implementation plays a bigger role here, though I could be wrong.
As you can see, the 3470K loses to a 3930k with the same clock speed, the 3770k loses to a 3960X with even while having a faster clockspeed. Yes architecture and threading make a difference etc etc, but my next gaming CPU will be 6 real cores atleast, maybe a HT 4 as the extra power is needed to push multi-GPU's as well.

I dunno, just my take.



Techspot.com
Edited by amstech - 3/21/13 at 2:24pm
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Logitech G502 Proteus Core Tunable  Razer Goliathus 444mm x 355mm - Speed Edition ... 
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AMD Phenom II 720 X3 BE @ 3.2GHz 24/7 MSi 770-G45 Sapphire Radeon HD 6870  8GB GSkill RipJaw 1333Mhz  
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB Samsung F3  DVD+-RW  Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit 60" LG 60PA5500 Plasma 
MonitorPowerCase
Acer X1373WH Projector Corsair CX500 Cooler Master 430 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsRAM
i5-2430M Intel HD Graphics  Nvidia 1GB GT 550M (GF116) w/Optimus|DX11|144 ... 6GB DDR3  
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
120GB PNY 1311 SSD 500GB 7.2K RPM Windows7 Home Premium 64 17.3" WLED TL 1600 X 900 with 2.0MP HD webcam 
KeyboardCaseAudio
Backlit Keyboard Elemental Silver Aluminum JBL 2.1 W/ Built-in Subwoofer 
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buildX
(16 items)
 
X3Elite (HTPC)
(14 items)
 
Dell XPS L702X
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 930 @ 4.0GHz (24/7) HT/on  Asus P6TD Deluxe Gigabyte 2GB GTX 670 Windforce3X OC  6GB OCZ Gold 1600 (tri-channel) 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 EVO 250GB Seagate Barracuda 500GB 7.2K 16MB Cache Prolimatech Megahalem Rev.B (Push/Pull) Windows 7 Home Premium 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer X233H Razer BlackWidow Ultimate  OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W XClio Windtunnel 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech G502 Proteus Core Tunable  Razer Goliathus 444mm x 355mm - Speed Edition ... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II 720 X3 BE @ 3.2GHz 24/7 MSi 770-G45 Sapphire Radeon HD 6870  8GB GSkill RipJaw 1333Mhz  
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB Samsung F3  DVD+-RW  Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit 60" LG 60PA5500 Plasma 
MonitorPowerCase
Acer X1373WH Projector Corsair CX500 Cooler Master 430 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsRAM
i5-2430M Intel HD Graphics  Nvidia 1GB GT 550M (GF116) w/Optimus|DX11|144 ... 6GB DDR3  
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
120GB PNY 1311 SSD 500GB 7.2K RPM Windows7 Home Premium 64 17.3" WLED TL 1600 X 900 with 2.0MP HD webcam 
KeyboardCaseAudio
Backlit Keyboard Elemental Silver Aluminum JBL 2.1 W/ Built-in Subwoofer 
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