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[Tom's Hardware] Core i7-4770K: Haswell's Performance, Previewed - Page 49

post #481 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink View Post

The 3570k is arguably superior to an i7 970. Better single threaded performance clock for clock and similar multithreaded performance. At the same time better OCing potential.

Even a 3770k doesn't have the multi-threaded performance of an i7 970.

Also, OCing potential is generally very similar, as a percentage increase over stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink View Post

I remember around two years ago there was a lot of banter about which CPU to get. The 2600k Sandy Bridgecame VERY close the the hex-core Gulftown CPUs in multithreaded apps(though it was generally slower) and beat it in single threaded. The 2500k came pretty close too.

I have an i7 970 that will do 4.2GHz and 2700k that will do 4.7GHz.

The 970 is hands down faster in most heavily threaded apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/551?vs=142

980x is Only 5.2% faster then the 3770k in multithreaded cinebench

My i7 970 gets ~10.8 in Cinebench 11.5 @ 4.2GHz. You need a 5.1GHz+ 3770k to match this.
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post #482 of 571
yea true cores always beat out virtual ones, i7 970 is a 6 core 12 thread beast.. I wish i didn't kill so many 980x/990x or i would still have one to use lol, i guess a 6 core 3960X is good too.

BTW as the Intel guy said a lot of these numbers aren't right, this was most likely done on an MSI/asrock board with a very premature BIOS and might not be tuned right. Not only that, the CPUs themselves can be different in final version. it is nice to see some hype tho.
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post #483 of 571
Can anyone here clarify the method of overclocking Haswell, I read somewhere that it's going to be BLCK based just like my current i7 920? Whereas the Ivy Bridges and the Sandy Bridges were different? Sorry for sounding like a noob, I'm just gearing up for a Haswell build and I'm a little unsure about which memory I should go with.

More detail: My current i7 920 overclocking is indirectly tied with my memory's speed (unless I've been overclocking it completely wrong for the past 3 years) so what I've done was increase the multiplier to x21 and BLCK to 200 which would make my memory speeds at 2005mhz hence the reason I bought Dominator GTs that are rated at 2000mhz so that everything would be "streamlined". I know I can just change the RAM ratio if I wanted to go higher on my CPU speeds but I hate doing that because I feel like the computer runs "bottlenecked" that way.

Sooo I've recently helped my cousin put together his pc which is an Ivy Bridge i7 3770K on an Asus RIVE and noticed that when overclocking you just set the memory speeds at whatever the XMP is and work on the CPU speed independantly. I was thinking wow, that's great, you can basically get some ultra low latency ram (i.e. 1600mhz with like 7 timings) and just worry about the CPU speed overclocking later.

NOW, I was thinking man, this is going to be great for Haswell when it comes out. I'll just do the same thing and buy some ultra low latency ram at 1600mhz and be done with it BUT I read rumors that it's going back to BLCK based so I'm now thinking I should get as high as possible speed RAM so that it won't limit my CPU overclocking limits.

I know it's a lot but I hope someone understands what I'm talking about here.
post #484 of 571
You are incorrectly understanding memory speed. Memory speed is based off of a multiplier from the BCLK. In the case of X58, the multipliers are in steps I think from 3 to 9. At the stock BCLK, which is 133 mhz, that would correspond to 800 mhz to 2400. At a BCLK of 200 mhz, that will give you memory speeds of 1200 mhz to 3600 mhz. Since the multiplier of 4 corresponds to 1600 mhz, you were perfectly capable of achieving 4 ghz with 1600 mhz RAM. In fact, that's what I did with my 920 system. In no way does lowering the RAM multiplier "bottleneck" the system. A multiplier of 6 with 133 BCLK vs a multiplier of 4 with 200 BCLK will net the exact same results. This is not the days of 775 where a higher FSB will generate better results.

What is semi-locked to the core speed is the QPI I think, which can either be run at full speed or half speed. It uses a fixed multiplier off of the BCLK.

With SB and IB, there was BCLK overclocking available, but due to the fact that SATA and PCI-E clocks were tied to the BCLK, you couldn't overclock the BCLK above 105 mhz or so. That's because the SATA and PCI-E devices will become unstable at clocks above 105 mhz. Therefore, the only method of overclocking was by multiplier overclocking on unlocked K processors.
Edited by Tsumi - 3/22/13 at 1:36am
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post #485 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

Selling your old parts will off-set the cost of the new build. You could easily get $150 for most high-end Z77 boards used, $100 for a medium spec board and $70 for an entry-level board. Combine that with a $249 selling price of a used 3770k and you're looking at spending no more than $150 to upgrade.

Upgrading is always over-stated on these boards. Some make it sound as if you have to fork over your a new kidney that you just had transplanted.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing the cost as prohibitive - at least for me I could care less (I usually wind up doing upgrades in groups, so it pretty much always costs me at least a grand). I'm simply saying that the cost/performance ratio doesn't seem to be there for me - at the moment at least. If I sell my MVE (and maybe get $350 for it) and then sell my 3570K for $175 and then buy the MVIE (or whatever ultra-high-end board) for $475 and the 4570K (assuming similar naming) for say $275. I've spent $750 in 'new money' and lost around $200 in 'sunk costs' for a total upgrade in the realm of $1K after shipping, taxes, etc..

Will the result be 10-20% faster than my current rig? NO. Will it possibly be even less? YES. That's the problem for me - if I were upgrading from a 775 C2Q then the value would be significant and comparable to the cost. But unless that 4570K/4770K can overclock to at least 4.7GHz in my system (or is at least 10-15% more efficient per clock-tick at same speed) it wouldn't be a very smart move IMO.

Now if I'm building a system from scratch for myself or someone else after release (and there are proven stable boards available at the time) then it definitely makes sense to go with the newest platform. But upgrading an existing system purely for a performance boost will require something more than Haswell is looking to provide. I think most people would be better served by just upgrading their GPU if they don't already have a last-gen/high-end model.
post #486 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing the cost as prohibitive - at least for me I could care less (I usually wind up doing upgrades in groups, so it pretty much always costs me at least a grand). I'm simply saying that the cost/performance ratio doesn't seem to be there for me - at the moment at least. If I sell my MVE (and maybe get $350 for it) and then sell my 3570K for $175 and then buy the MVIE (or whatever ultra-high-end board) for $475 and the 4570K (assuming similar naming) for say $275. I've spent $750 in 'new money' and lost around $200 in 'sunk costs' for a total upgrade in the realm of $1K after shipping, taxes, etc..

Will the result be 10-20% faster than my current rig? NO. Will it possibly be even less? YES. That's the problem for me - if I were upgrading from a 775 C2Q then the value would be significant and comparable to the cost. But unless that 4570K/4770K can overclock to at least 4.7GHz in my system (or is at least 10-15% more efficient per clock-tick at same speed) it wouldn't be a very smart move IMO.

Now if I'm building a system from scratch for myself or someone else after release (and there are proven stable boards available at the time) then it definitely makes sense to go with the newest platform. But upgrading an existing system purely for a performance boost will require something more than Haswell is looking to provide. I think most people would be better served by just upgrading their GPU if they don't already have a last-gen/high-end model.
Exactly (indeedly!) sir biggrin.gif
My system still rules in multithreaded apps and that is what I care most about I mostly don't even bother selling I just give it to a friend or a family member.
post #487 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Exactly (indeedly!) sir biggrin.gif
My system still rules in multithreaded apps and that is what I care most about I mostly don't even bother selling I just give it to a friend or a family member.

Yeah, that's what I have done for years... unfortunately, now I have a rig that's way to large and way too expensive to just 'hand off' and start over. Plus I can't see a time when it would make sense to hand my parents (in their 70s) a computer built around my 'cast offs' - they're quite happy now with an old Opteron165 rig I handed down to them like 6 years ago. biggrin.gif
post #488 of 571
With the already seen 7% increase in IPC and the rumored BCLK overclocking, I don't see why these chips wouldn't break 4.7ghz.

I'm pretty confident we will get a fine overclocking chip except for the TIM used.

This wait is really killing me...
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post #489 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing the cost as prohibitive - at least for me I could care less (I usually wind up doing upgrades in groups, so it pretty much always costs me at least a grand). I'm simply saying that the cost/performance ratio doesn't seem to be there for me - at the moment at least. If I sell my MVE (and maybe get $350 for it) and then sell my 3570K for $175 and then buy the MVIE (or whatever ultra-high-end board) for $475 and the 4570K (assuming similar naming) for say $275. I've spent $750 in 'new money' and lost around $200 in 'sunk costs' for a total upgrade in the realm of $1K after shipping, taxes, etc..

Will the result be 10-20% faster than my current rig? NO. Will it possibly be even less? YES. That's the problem for me - if I were upgrading from a 775 C2Q then the value would be significant and comparable to the cost. But unless that 4570K/4770K can overclock to at least 4.7GHz in my system (or is at least 10-15% more efficient per clock-tick at same speed) it wouldn't be a very smart move IMO.

Now if I'm building a system from scratch for myself or someone else after release (and there are proven stable boards available at the time) then it definitely makes sense to go with the newest platform. But upgrading an existing system purely for a performance boost will require something more than Haswell is looking to provide. I think most people would be better served by just upgrading their GPU if they don't already have a last-gen/high-end model.

I'm willing to bet you could find the new products with free shipping somewhere. And if you are selling you could have the buyer pay for the shipping.

So basic math

475-350= 125
275-175= 100

225 more? Where is this 200 of sunk costs and all that? Does Nevada make you pay taxes on online purchases?

Everyone will have their opinion on whether 225 is worth being on the new 1150 + 5-10% in performance (plus less energy, plus better IGP (which i agree for the majority of people here is useless)) but everyone is acting like this is such a huge financial endeavor and I think less than 300 for new MB and CHIP isn't THAT bad. And if you are a C2D person then are you really going to buy IVY or SANDY over Haswell brand new? Especially since people are saying it'll all be around the same price range.
post #490 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmayes2000 View Post

And if you are a C2D person then are you really going to buy IVY or SANDY over Haswell brand new? Especially since people are saying it'll all be around the same price range.

Not it might be the same price, it WILL be the same price
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