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[Tom's Hardware] Core i7-4770K: Haswell's Performance, Previewed - Page 50

post #491 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

You are incorrectly understanding memory speed. Memory speed is based off of a multiplier from the BCLK. In the case of X58, the multipliers are in steps I think from 3 to 9. At the stock BCLK, which is 133 mhz, that would correspond to 800 mhz to 2400. At a BCLK of 200 mhz, that will give you memory speeds of 1200 mhz to 3600 mhz. Since the multiplier of 4 corresponds to 1600 mhz, you were perfectly capable of achieving 4 ghz with 1600 mhz RAM. In fact, that's what I did with my 920 system. In no way does lowering the RAM multiplier "bottleneck" the system. A multiplier of 6 with 133 BCLK vs a multiplier of 4 with 200 BCLK will net the exact same results. This is not the days of 775 where a higher FSB will generate better results.

What is semi-locked to the core speed is the QPI I think, which can either be run at full speed or half speed. It uses a fixed multiplier off of the BCLK.

With SB and IB, there was BCLK overclocking available, but due to the fact that SATA and PCI-E clocks were tied to the BCLK, you couldn't overclock the BCLK above 105 mhz or so. That's because the SATA and PCI-E devices will become unstable at clocks above 105 mhz. Therefore, the only method of overclocking was by multiplier overclocking on unlocked K processors.

Alright I get it now, so does anyone know whether or not Haswell will be like SB/IB or the i7 920s?
post #492 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naviblue View Post

Alright I get it now, so does anyone know whether or not Haswell will be like SB/IB or the i7 920s?

Nope. That's why there's so much speculation floating around.
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post #493 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmayes2000 View Post

I'm willing to bet you could find the new products with free shipping somewhere. And if you are selling you could have the buyer pay for the shipping.

So basic math

475-350= 125
275-175= 100

225 more? Where is this 200 of sunk costs and all that? Does Nevada make you pay taxes on online purchases?

Everyone will have their opinion on whether 225 is worth being on the new 1150 + 5-10% in performance (plus less energy, plus better IGP (which i agree for the majority of people here is useless)) but everyone is acting like this is such a huge financial endeavor and I think less than 300 for new MB and CHIP isn't THAT bad. And if you are a C2D person then are you really going to buy IVY or SANDY over Haswell brand new? Especially since people are saying it'll all be around the same price range.

Sunk costs are losses in acquisition that cannot be recouped. In normal cases they are best left uncounted, but in my example they are pertinent as we're not simply saying 'one functional system=another functional system' That $350 for the MB represents a $150 loss, and the $175 for the CPU represents a $50 loss (from the price paid at retail when purchased). That's the definition of sunk costs.

As far as paying sales taxes, if I do everything online - it's possible, but that's not the point of my post.

The point of my post is not that there isn't a decent value in a Haswell-based system... there most certainly is. My point was simply that it's not worth the upgrade IMO, if you're going from a 3570K/3770K that you already have, to a new 4570K/4770K - even if your "basic math" is correct. Intel definitely isn't batting 1000 as far as chipset releases are concerned, and although close, they aren't there with CPU releases either (remember Prescott, PentiumPro, or for that matter in some opinions IB itself?). If you already have an NV TITAN or a couple of 7970's then by all means upgrade away. If not, that $225 or more it's going to take to make much of a difference in anything (other than perhaps epeen... and not necessarily even in that) would simply be better spent upgrading your GPU (or getting an SSD if you haven't already gone that route).

The actual cost-of-entry isn't bad at all (provided I could use my same CPU block which it seems shouldn't be a problem)... however, until proven - I'm much more likely to spend that much or even a little more getting a 'perfect' IB overclocker that hits 5.3GHz than taking a gamble on the early releases of the next generation.
Edited by DiGiCiDAL - 3/22/13 at 5:05am
post #494 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naviblue View Post

Alright I get it now, so does anyone know whether or not Haswell will be like SB/IB or the i7 920s?

Bclk overclocking from the x58 days is dead and not coming back. Z87 is rumored to have bclk straps like X79 has
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post #495 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

Sunk costs are losses in acquisition that cannot be recouped. In normal cases they are best left uncounted, but in my example they are pertinent as we're not simply saying 'one functional system=another functional system' That $350 for the MB represents a $150 loss, and the $175 for the CPU represents a $50 loss (from the price paid at retail when purchased). That's the definition of sunk costs.

As far as paying sales taxes, if I do everything online - it's possible, but that's not the point of my post.

The point of my post is not that there isn't a decent value in a Haswell-based system... there most certainly is. My point was simply that it's not worth the upgrade IMO, if you're going from a 3570K/3770K that you already have, to a new 4570K/4770K - even if your "basic math" is correct. Intel definitely isn't batting 1000 as far as chipset releases are concerned, and although close, they aren't there with CPU releases either (remember Prescott, PentiumPro, or for that matter in some opinions IB itself?). If you already have an NV TITAN or a couple of 7970's then by all means upgrade away. If not, that $225 or more it's going to take to make much of a difference in anything (other than perhaps epeen... and not necessarily even in that) would simply be better spent upgrading your GPU (or getting an SSD if you haven't already gone that route).

The actual cost-of-entry isn't bad at all (provided I could use my same CPU block which it seems shouldn't be a problem)... however, until proven - I'm much more likely to spend that much or even a little more getting a 'perfect' IB overclocker that hits 5.3GHz than taking a gamble on the early releases of the next generation.

Honestly I agree with all of that. That's why i said it will come down to the individual consumers opinion on whether the $225 is justified. I'm just saying the price at which they should be using as whether it's justified isn't the $500+ its the cost of selling your old rig to afford the new one, the $225. Because lets face it, if you can afford to buy new **** without selling your old one, what are you really complaining about?
post #496 of 571
I have a 2500K OC'd to 4.5 (Could probably go 4.6 or 4.7 if I wanted to) and I'm not sure when to next upgrade. What do you guys think?
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post #497 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackem View Post

I have a 2500K OC'd to 4.5 (Could probably go 4.6 or 4.7 if I wanted to) and I'm not sure when to next upgrade. What do you guys think?
You should upgrade when you're not satisfied with the performance of your current 2500k
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post #498 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackem View Post

I have a 2500K OC'd to 4.5 (Could probably go 4.6 or 4.7 if I wanted to) and I'm not sure when to next upgrade. What do you guys think?

I think you will get better gaming performance by upgrading GPU (from 560Ti to 660Ti/7950) than improving the CPU(to 4670K), cost wise should be about equal depending on how much you sell your 560Ti/Z68/2500K for.


Edited by sherlock - 3/22/13 at 9:11am
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post #499 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink View Post

There are times where a 2500k outperforms a 2600k despite it having lower clocks, less cache and no HT.
Any explanations?
Old games with old programming code, or games built on engines that utilize older programming code.
These games/examples are very, very rare and/or outdated.
-
Edited by amstech - 3/22/13 at 9:24am
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post #500 of 571
my question is.. is it worth it for the expected price? 400-420$? after this i decided that if by the time i have the money collected haswell was out.. i'm gonna get a 3770K biggrin.gif
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