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Plasma speaker creates sound without the need for drivers. Old news. - Page 2

post #11 of 23
I have seen a video on youtube of one that someone built themselves. It is really interesting but has a lot of limits.

I study speaker design in my free time and you will find that every design out there is full of compromises. Over time, you will find what compromises you are willing to make and what you really desire in a loudspeaker.

Another thing that is really not understood much at all is how the brain interprets audio signals, aka psychoacoustics...

www.linkwitzlab.com has some very useful information about such things as he does research and sells the plans to his speakers to the public for our DIY audio adventures.

One thing that he has concluded is that the way a room interacts with the source(speaker) plays a very large role into how things sound. With all the research I have done I have to say that I agree with him entirely, especially because sound is omnidirectional in nature.

This is what I mean:

When someone is talking to you and you walk around the room and that person does not change the direction they are speaking do you hear anything different? Your answer would probably be that it just gets louder or quieter but sound the exact same.

With speakers you will notice that at certain angles the sound becomes "boomy" "muddled" etc. This is because the polar response is not equal across the frequency spectrum because as you move off axis you hear less of the mid-range and treble and more of the midbass and bass because in a typical box speaker the sound becomes omnidirectional below 500hz and is a monopole above that.

So here is something to consider, is it what the drivers are made out of or how the drivers are moving in the room?

Imagine a bass drum, when the drummer strikes the pedal, the hammer hits the diaphram and it presses the material forward and then the material returns to the original position, but not before it creates sound that also goes in the opposite direction.

Now, in a dipole speaker, the larger bass drivers are doing the same thing and therefore it is descibed to "hit harder" and sound more like a real drum in your room.

Now, I said earlier that every speaker has it's own compromises, so you may ask what the compromise is with these kinds of designs?

Well a dipole open baffle speaker like what I am talking about tends to be a little more limited in max SPL. Horns can usually reach 125db(much louder than anyone would ever need) While an OB speaker is usually at it's limits in the 100-110db range(still more than you will need), another limit is that you must be careful to not over drive your speakers as you can cause the drivers to reach their xmax and bottom out since there is no "air spring" inside a box to limit it's movement, so you could cause damage to your drivers easier than you can with a tradition boxed speaker.

I think you are correct that the material used does have some affect on sound, I have speakers with soft dome tweeters and some with titanium tweeters, in my room that is all tile, lots of windows, and no room treatments the titanium sounds too bright and harsh while the soft dome sounds pleasant. however, what loudspeaker designers strive for is total "pistonic" movement for the entire frequency range as it can control the sounds made better.

However, I do not know how much of a difference the material used affects sound below the treble as our ears are not as sensitive in all areas of sound.
post #12 of 23
I doubt you could find a way to use plasma to sufficiently move air mass in order to produce deep bass without ridiculously large amounts of voltage and current (impractical); you're welcome to try though.

In the mean time, normal people will just continue to evolve the electrostatic speaker that uses a medium to move a large mass of air. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_loudspeaker
post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 
What are you implying, that only abnormal people would try to perfect and develop a plasma speaker? Sometimes breakthrough technological developments begin from "ridiculous" prototypes. Think of planes, electricity, the automobile, the phone, ect. All of these started off as something so ridiculous that no one could ever conceive them being made, now we can't live without them.

James Dyson made 5,126 prototypes of the vacuum before he finally got it right. Maybe everyone thought he was abnormal...
Edited by aweir - 3/21/13 at 7:12pm
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post

What are you implying, that only abnormal people would try to perfect and develop a plasma speaker? Sometimes breakthrough technological developments begin from "ridiculous" prototypes. Think of planes, electricity, the automobile, the phone, ect. All of these started off as something so ridiculous that no one could ever conceive them being made, now we can't live without them.

James Dyson made 5,126 prototypes of the vacuum before he finally got it right. Maybe everyone thought he was abnormal...

There's a difference between inventing something entirely new, that fills a previously unfulfilled role, and inventing something that does the same thing as other commonly existing well understood and well performing alternative, only a lot worse with a lot more downsides.

Once man invented the wheel, we didn't then go and pour all our efforts into replacing it with a triangle, that would be silly, we instead improved the wheel.
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post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post

What are you implying, that only abnormal people would try to perfect and develop a plasma speaker? Sometimes breakthrough technological developments begin from "ridiculous" prototypes. Think of planes, electricity, the automobile, the phone, ect. All of these started off as something so ridiculous that no one could ever conceive them being made, now we can't live without them.

James Dyson made 5,126 prototypes of the vacuum before he finally got it right. Maybe everyone thought he was abnormal...


He is not saying that it is a bad idea to use something like that for a tweeter, but currently it is impossible to use something like the plasma speaker to make sound from the lower octaves all the way to the tweeter. I also believe that they use massive amounts of electricity, which I think would make many of the green people unhappy.

Speakers work by moving air and a plasma speaker cannot move enough air to create those lower frequencies. A 12" subwoofer may be able to reproduce the same frequencies that a 15" driver can, but the 12 has to work a LOT harder to get there. I would bet that in order to get a plasma speaker to even cover the majority of the midrange(say down to 1.5khz) it would have to be absolutely enormous, and i dont know how well it would work in a horn, but the horn flare also contributes to the frequency range that it can cover...

They could very well be one of the best tweeters available, however, I am not willing to spend the money on one since I can get some really good dome tweeters for fraction of the cost.
post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

There's a difference between inventing something entirely new, that fills a previously unfulfilled role, and inventing something that does the same thing as other commonly existing well understood and well performing alternative, only a lot worse with a lot more downsides.

Once man invented the wheel, we didn't then go and pour all our efforts into replacing it with a triangle, that would be silly, we instead improved the wheel.

Let's blow your theory out of the water:

Do you realize how many times the "television" was reinvented?

Let's see....

Small black and white tube televisions, to color solid state CRTs, to rear screen projector TVs, LCD, to IPS to Plasma, to LED to 3D Displays .

Each one is separate incarnation of producing an image even though they "do the same thing".

Is a paper cone speaker glued to a box with a hole in it the best mankind can do? If so, then I am truly sorry.
Edited by aweir - 3/22/13 at 1:38pm
post #17 of 23
As I said, you're welcome to try; and if you're a genius like Nikola Tesla, you might just succeed.

If I were looking to come up with a revolutionary new way to produce sound using insanely high voltages (plasma), I would probably start with researching the meissner effect. Since plasma doesn't have any kind of tangible mass that can be used to move air, you would need to rely on electromagnetism and resonance to make the air itself move. You would have to create some sort of stable field that would hold air molecules in place and then be able to move them to and fro at specific oscilliations in order to reproduce sound at any frequency.

... and while you're busy at that, I'll be in my listening chair with my eyes closed receiving bliss from my "paper cones" at reference volume.
:-)

Quote:
Small black and white tube televisions, to color solid state CRTs, to rear screen projector TVs, LCD, to IPS to Plasma, to LED to 3D Displays .
black & white tube TV + phosphor = CRT = Plasma
LCD = IPS = LED
3D doesn't count because that is just refresh rate + special glasses
Edited by Electrocutor - 3/22/13 at 2:45pm
post #18 of 23
Its about time we focused on upgrading the sound cause TV's have been updated from CRT's to Flatscreens, So its time for sound to hit somthing new xD
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post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post

Let's blow your theory out of the water:

Do you realize how many times the "television" was reinvented?

Let's see....

Small black and white tube televisions, to color solid state CRTs, to rear screen projector TVs, LCD, to IPS to Plasma, to LED to 3D Displays .

Each one is separate incarnation of producing an image even though they "do the same thing".

Is a paper cone speaker glued to a box with a hole in it the best mankind can do? If so, then I am truly sorry.

Nice reading comprehension bro.
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post #20 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrocutor View Post

black & white tube TV + phosphor = CRT = Plasma
LCD = IPS = LED
3D doesn't count because that is just refresh rate + special glasses

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