Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [AppleInsider] Apple sued by THX over U.S. Patent No. 7,433,483 "Narrow profile speaker" used in iPhone, iPad and iMac
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[AppleInsider] Apple sued by THX over U.S. Patent No. 7,433,483 "Narrow profile speaker" used in iPhone, iPad and iMac - Page 7

post #61 of 73
The camera does look like it's been drawn with solid lines.

and it's 8mp (says on it, I know you said you didn't remember though)

But those patents look like they're patenting the exact design of the device, as a whole. Not just individual pieces of it, or some vauge thing like a "slim speaker design"

Those are patents for the exact design of the device, button layout, flash, camera, shape, accents, etc. Same goes for the tv.

It's not quite like what apple did patenting a phone using a rounded rectangular shape.

Those samsung patents are for an exact device, with the exact detailings and accents used in the devices.
Taiga's 2nd wind
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 6600K Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming G.Skill Ripjaws V series 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital 1TB HDD Mushkin Enhanced Eco2 SSD Silverstone TD02-Lite Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G257HU Roccat Isku Corsair CX600M Antec P182 
MouseMouse Pad
Roccat Kone+ SteelSeries 
  hide details  
Reply
Taiga's 2nd wind
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 6600K Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming G.Skill Ripjaws V series 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital 1TB HDD Mushkin Enhanced Eco2 SSD Silverstone TD02-Lite Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G257HU Roccat Isku Corsair CX600M Antec P182 
MouseMouse Pad
Roccat Kone+ SteelSeries 
  hide details  
Reply
post #62 of 73
thumb.gifthumb.gifthumb.gifthumb.gifthumb.gifthumb.gifthumb.gifthumb.gifthumb.gif
 
A955 Phenomator
(16 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2700k @4.8ghz g1 sniper3 msi 660ti 3gb 32 gb mushkind silverline 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
intel 180gb ssd ocz 120gb solid3 ocz 120gb vertex plus ocz 120gb vertex plus 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
ocz 120gb vertex plus seagate 3tb seagate 3tb lg bur-ay 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
noctuca d-14 windows 8 pro samsung 23in led samung 19in lcd w 
PowerCase
ocz-b 1000w shinobi xl black 
CPUMotherboardRAMRAM
amd phenom2 955be 4.26ghz stable gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H rev 2.1 CORSAIR XMS CORSAIR XMS 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
OCZ solid3 SEAGATE Barracuda 7200.12  SEAGATE Barracuda 7200.12  DVD-RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
mugen 2 WIN7 ULTIMATE 64BIT 1x24in Samsung LED s24sa300 and 1X19IN SAMSUNG ... Logisys red/blue led! 
PowerCase
thermaltake 750w Z9 plus with some fan mods! 
  hide details  
Reply
 
A955 Phenomator
(16 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2700k @4.8ghz g1 sniper3 msi 660ti 3gb 32 gb mushkind silverline 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
intel 180gb ssd ocz 120gb solid3 ocz 120gb vertex plus ocz 120gb vertex plus 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
ocz 120gb vertex plus seagate 3tb seagate 3tb lg bur-ay 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
noctuca d-14 windows 8 pro samsung 23in led samung 19in lcd w 
PowerCase
ocz-b 1000w shinobi xl black 
CPUMotherboardRAMRAM
amd phenom2 955be 4.26ghz stable gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H rev 2.1 CORSAIR XMS CORSAIR XMS 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
OCZ solid3 SEAGATE Barracuda 7200.12  SEAGATE Barracuda 7200.12  DVD-RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
mugen 2 WIN7 ULTIMATE 64BIT 1x24in Samsung LED s24sa300 and 1X19IN SAMSUNG ... Logisys red/blue led! 
PowerCase
thermaltake 750w Z9 plus with some fan mods! 
  hide details  
Reply
post #63 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post

The camera does look like it's been drawn with solid lines.

and it's 8mp (says on it, I know you said you didn't remember though)

But those patents look like they're patenting the exact design of the device, as a whole. Not just individual pieces of it, or some vauge thing like a "slim speaker design"

Those are patents for the exact design of the device, button layout, flash, camera, shape, accents, etc. Same goes for the tv.

It's not quite like what apple did patenting a phone using a rounded rectangular shape.

Those samsung patents are for an exact device, with the exact detailings and accents used in the devices.

Solid lines = the thick black lines.

On the phone, the only thick black lines was the rectangle.
On the TV, the only thick black lines was the base which is an oval.

Personally I think they should get someone to go though the entire patent system (both function patents and design patents) and void those type of patents.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen R5 1600 Asus PRIME B350 PLUS  AMD Radeon HD7950 16GB Corsair Vengence (2x8GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
1TB WD Blue 500GB WD Blue 120GB Hitachi Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
LG 32LD450 Dell Ducky DK9008 OCN Edition Corsair TX650v2 
Case
Fractal Design Core 3000 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen R5 1600 Asus PRIME B350 PLUS  AMD Radeon HD7950 16GB Corsair Vengence (2x8GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
1TB WD Blue 500GB WD Blue 120GB Hitachi Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
LG 32LD450 Dell Ducky DK9008 OCN Edition Corsair TX650v2 
Case
Fractal Design Core 3000 
  hide details  
Reply
post #64 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post

The camera does look like it's been drawn with solid lines.

and it's 8mp (says on it, I know you said you didn't remember though)

But those patents look like they're patenting the exact design of the device, as a whole. Not just individual pieces of it, or some vauge thing like a "slim speaker design"

Those are patents for the exact design of the device, button layout, flash, camera, shape, accents, etc. Same goes for the tv.

It's not quite like what apple did patenting a phone using a rounded rectangular shape.

Those samsung patents are for an exact device, with the exact detailings and accents used in the devices.

Solid lines = the thick black lines.

On the phone, the only thick black lines was the rectangle.
On the TV, the only thick black lines was the base which is an oval.

Personally I think they should get someone to go though the entire patent system (both function patents and design patents) and void those type of patents.

the only "thick black lines" on the phone you linked to, are because if you look from the side profile, it has an angle to its edge, so naturally, because of the ridges the edge has, the reverse view would appear to have thicker lines around it. But, every single line on the entire drawing, is of equal thickness.

Same goes for the TV. The base has a beveled edge and because of it the lines appear to be thicker from trying to draw the details involved with the beveled edge.

You can't claim that the patents you posted are anything similar to the now defunct "steve jobs patent" in which the device they are picturing does not exist, has no unique characteristics that make it stand out, and have detailed drawings of what the device itself ACTUALLY looks like.



The two samsung patents you linked are of ACTUAL devices that samsung ACTUALLY produced, and they patented the EXACT DESIGN of the device.

They didn't patent a phone with a camera. They patented the exact design of a phone they produced, with all its individual characteristics. They didn't patent an oval. They patented the entire design of a television set, that happens to use an oval base.

It doesn't mean suddenly no one can use an oval base because samsung did it. It means no one can produce a television that looks EXACTLY like theirs.

On top of that, if you look at the patent for samsungs camera phone you linked. The claim is for "The ornamental design for a mobile phone, as shown and described." Meaning, the patent claim is for the EXACT DESIGN AND LOOK OF THE PHONE PICTURED IN THE PATENT

And the same goes for the TV set you showed.

Furthermore if you go to this article to download apples patent they were using for the rectangle patent
http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/08/03/apple-vs-samsung-who-owns-the-rectangle/

you'll see the only non-solid lines were of the person, and the screen itself, leaving the patent for a very very featureless, rounded, rectangle shape. It's because of how featureless the device is, that they were able to bend the rules to obscene levels and abuse the hell out of their patents.
Edited by Nenkitsune - 3/24/13 at 2:48pm
Taiga's 2nd wind
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 6600K Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming G.Skill Ripjaws V series 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital 1TB HDD Mushkin Enhanced Eco2 SSD Silverstone TD02-Lite Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G257HU Roccat Isku Corsair CX600M Antec P182 
MouseMouse Pad
Roccat Kone+ SteelSeries 
  hide details  
Reply
Taiga's 2nd wind
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 6600K Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming G.Skill Ripjaws V series 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital 1TB HDD Mushkin Enhanced Eco2 SSD Silverstone TD02-Lite Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G257HU Roccat Isku Corsair CX600M Antec P182 
MouseMouse Pad
Roccat Kone+ SteelSeries 
  hide details  
Reply
post #65 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post

The camera does look like it's been drawn with solid lines.
...But those patents look like they're patenting the exact design of the device, as a whole. Not just individual pieces of it, or some vauge thing like a "slim speaker design"

Those are patents for the exact design of the device, button layout, flash, camera, shape, accents, etc. Same goes for the tv.

It's not quite like what apple did patenting a phone using a rounded rectangular shape.

Those samsung patents are for an exact device, with the exact detailings and accents used in the devices.

It is necessary to distinguish between design and utility patents.

Utility patents are what people usually think of when they hear "patent." Design patents, on the other hand, aren't for inventions; they protect the ornamental, non-functional shape of a manufactured object, such as the distinctive front grill of a BMW, or the contours of the old-fashioned Coke bottle. They do not protect "inventions." Apple's rounded-rectangle patent was a design patent. In a design patent, all that is protected is what is depicted in the diagram, and one does need to distinguish between the solid lines and the dotted lines.

The patent that THX is suing on here is a utility patent, and in utility patents, what matters are not the diagrams but the "claims" at the end of the document.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickensevil View Post

Yeah there are a lot of rediculous patents out there, and the fact that they last for a lifetime + 75 is completely retarded. Next thing you know someone will patent a rounded rectangle... oh wait...

Life + 70 (not 75) is the term for copyright in the United States. not patents. Utility patents last 20 years from the date of filing.
post #66 of 73
(doh! double post.)
Edited by Prof Aronnax - 3/24/13 at 3:03pm
post #67 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof Aronnax View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post

The camera does look like it's been drawn with solid lines.
...But those patents look like they're patenting the exact design of the device, as a whole. Not just individual pieces of it, or some vauge thing like a "slim speaker design"

Those are patents for the exact design of the device, button layout, flash, camera, shape, accents, etc. Same goes for the tv.

It's not quite like what apple did patenting a phone using a rounded rectangular shape.

Those samsung patents are for an exact device, with the exact detailings and accents used in the devices.

It is necessary to distinguish between design and utility patents.

Utility patents are what people usually think of when they hear "patent." Design patents, on the other hand, aren't for inventions; they protect the ornamental, non-functional shape of a manufactured object, such as the distinctive front grill of a BMW, or the contours of the old-fashioned Coke bottle. They do not protect "inventions." Apple's rounded-rectangle patent was a design patent. In a design patent, all that is protected is what is depicted in the diagram, and one does need to distinguish between the solid lines and the dotted lines.

The patent that THX is suing on here is a utility patent, and in utility patents, what matters are not the diagrams but the "claims" at the end of the document.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickensevil View Post

Yeah there are a lot of rediculous patents out there, and the fact that they last for a lifetime + 75 is completely retarded. Next thing you know someone will patent a rounded rectangle... oh wait...

Life + 70 (not 75) is the term for copyright in the United States. not patents. Utility patents last 20 years from the date of filing.

Oh trust me, i know the difference between a design patent and a utility patent. The poster that sent the links to those patents, was stating that samsung had patented a rectangular camera phone and an oval, as a utility, when in fact, they were design patents for the design of an entire device as a whole

I initially used the wrong patent (the utility patent) though I know they were contesting that one as far as samsungs touchwiz ui.

The design patent I put in afterwards. I should've edited the utility patent out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickensevil View Post

Yeah there are a lot of rediculous patents out there, and the fact that they last for a lifetime + 75 is completely retarded. Next thing you know someone will patent a rounded rectangle... oh wait...

I agree, Samsung shouldn't have been given that patent for a basic camera phone design.

Reference if you don't get it.

He originally stated that samsung was given a patent for a basic camera phone design.

When in fact, samsung was given a design patent describing the exact decor of a phone they produce.

he then says
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post


Samsung also have a patent for an oval thumb.gif

http://www.google.com/patents?id=KpTLAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

When it's not the oval they patented, its the exact design of a tv set they made.


Anyways, at first I thought this whole thing was ridiculous, but after I actually read into it, THX has a strong case against apple. THX has a method they use to enhance sound quality using small, slim speakers. Apple hired the dude that worked at THX, and uses the guys knowledge of how they enhance the speaker output etc, knowingly infringing on THX's patents by doing so.

THX gets mad, sues for patent infringment, which they rightfully should.

I'm sure many companies pay THX to use specialized speaker designs when they're making devices with small speakers, but want better sound output
Edited by Nenkitsune - 3/24/13 at 3:08pm
Taiga's 2nd wind
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 6600K Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming G.Skill Ripjaws V series 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital 1TB HDD Mushkin Enhanced Eco2 SSD Silverstone TD02-Lite Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G257HU Roccat Isku Corsair CX600M Antec P182 
MouseMouse Pad
Roccat Kone+ SteelSeries 
  hide details  
Reply
Taiga's 2nd wind
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 6600K Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming G.Skill Ripjaws V series 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital 1TB HDD Mushkin Enhanced Eco2 SSD Silverstone TD02-Lite Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G257HU Roccat Isku Corsair CX600M Antec P182 
MouseMouse Pad
Roccat Kone+ SteelSeries 
  hide details  
Reply
post #68 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post

Oh trust me, i know the difference between a design patent and a utility patent.... The design patent I put in afterwards. I should've edited the utility patent out.

Ok. I didn't necessarily mean to suggest otherwise; although I'm not sure everyone else has that straight. But as I follow your previous conversation, I note that both the Samsung patent you were discussing and the Apple rounded-rectangle patents were design patents. The difference is that Samsung's is far more specific than Apple's, who more or less spammed the PTO with shapes on paper.
post #69 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof Aronnax View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post

Oh trust me, i know the difference between a design patent and a utility patent.... The design patent I put in afterwards. I should've edited the utility patent out.

Ok. I didn't necessarily mean to suggest otherwise; although I'm not sure everyone else has that straight. But as I follow your previous conversation, I note that both the Samsung patent you were discussing and the Apple rounded-rectangle patents were design patents. The difference is that Samsung's is far more specific than Apple's, who more or less spammed the PTO with shapes on paper.

Yeah, the featureless design in apple's patent let them basically confuse the hell out of people during the trial. I mean, they could have just drawn a box on the paper and say, that's the design of our new device. It's a featureless cube. Anyone who makes featureless cubes from here on out are infringing on our patents.

Even though their design patent did have some noticable features (like the charging port, the speaker, and a couple other things) it was just so plain and simple that it let Apple patent troll like crazy saying "Your device has rounded corners like ours YOU MUST BE INFRINGING"
Taiga's 2nd wind
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 6600K Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming G.Skill Ripjaws V series 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital 1TB HDD Mushkin Enhanced Eco2 SSD Silverstone TD02-Lite Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G257HU Roccat Isku Corsair CX600M Antec P182 
MouseMouse Pad
Roccat Kone+ SteelSeries 
  hide details  
Reply
Taiga's 2nd wind
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 6600K Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming G.Skill Ripjaws V series 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital 1TB HDD Mushkin Enhanced Eco2 SSD Silverstone TD02-Lite Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G257HU Roccat Isku Corsair CX600M Antec P182 
MouseMouse Pad
Roccat Kone+ SteelSeries 
  hide details  
Reply
post #70 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post


Anyways, at first I thought this whole thing was ridiculous, but after I actually read into it, THX has a strong case against apple. THX has a method they use to enhance sound quality using small, slim speakers. Apple hired the dude that worked at THX, and uses the guys knowledge of how they enhance the speaker output etc, knowingly infringing on THX's patents by doing so.

Well, if Apple poached an employee to get trade secrets, one would think THX would have sued Apple for trade secret misappropriation, not patent infringement. I think the part about the employee might just be hand-waving. Because if you look at the complaint, it doesn't say anything about trade secrets or the employee. It doesn't even allege willfulness, which you would normally do if you thought they were intentionally infringing.

It also occurs to me that in a properly drafted patent, you shouldn't need to poach an employee to implement the technology: the "invention" should all be explained in the claims. That's part of the deal for getting your patent: disclosing what you've invented to the public. Granted, if someone uses that invention without a license, they're an infringer.

But I agree with your broader point that this might be a valid lawsuit. It seems to me that because there is a lot of abusive patent litigation going on right now, there is a tendency to assume that all patent litigation is ridiculous.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [AppleInsider] Apple sued by THX over U.S. Patent No. 7,433,483 "Narrow profile speaker" used in iPhone, iPad and iMac