Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [nbcnews] Supreme Court backs student in dispute over used textbook sales
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[nbcnews] Supreme Court backs student in dispute over used textbook sales - Page 13

post #121 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

*This is not meant to be a flame or put anyone down*

Feel free to ask my brother in-law about his position on it....

5 tours in Iraq and Afghan.

His Humvee was blown up outside of Baghdad Airport, he survived, his best friend in the front passenger seat (He was driving) was eviscerated, died in front of him. My brother in-law lost hearing in his right ear, but the military "fixed" it, sent him back. Next tour, he was shot, Kevlar stopped it, still hurt though.

Two more tours went "fine", until his last tour, when he was actually ran over by another service member in a truck. They were back in Turkey on a break, my brother in-law was walking out of the BX and here comes a dude, drunk, runs him over. "Luckily" he wasn't going that fast, and my brother "only" had his knees torn apart....

Instead of surgery for repair, they just jacked him full of ultra high dosages of steroids, let him gain 120Lbs, and kicked him out for not passing PT. 10 years in the service....tossed like trash. He was smart enough to fight it for about a year, the being kick part, and was able to get the Government to admit his injuries were "Service Connected", so now he gets the pleasure of dealing with the VA.

He is also about ready to graduate with his Bachelors in Nursing, and has had to only pay about $1000 out of his pocket, for little incidentals. Still, he would much rather have paid for his College completely out of pocket, and NOT have the horrible physical and physiological issues he has.

There is no amount of money that could make what happen to him worth it.....

This^

I school with many Vets @ MyComputerCareer.com and while they often joke about the times of stupid things from basic and how clean they used to get things (My class mate was loved since he was an ex janitor lol) the question of why they get low benefits from their GI Bill tends to come up every now and then. Since my school is based out of Raleigh, they get 1100 instead of 1700 for where we are which is Dallas.

But it doesnt make them any less thankful, most of them are on 20-60% disability so they receive benefits from that as well, and dont have to pay for much anything during their time at school. So whenever they complain I remind them Im still paying 20k while they pay 20 bucks for the parking permit lol. Though they understand that I respect the actions they carried out and the injuries they have sustained while in the service.

They have their own stories that were/are unfortunate, most of them being older vets that have served in South America trying to keep the Cartels from kidnapping daughters to be used for motivation to grow illegal substances and never to be returned

Back on Topic though:

The books I really despised and the main reason why I stopped going to a traditional school altogether was when the local community college started using some books that were literally ONE TIME use books. They came without bindings, and you had to buy large binders for them just to be able to take them to class. For a Basic Computer Literature class I thought that was unbelievable for 150 USD at the time. Working 2 jobs and living on my own at the time, the book I used for 9 weeks costs more than the budget for food for 9 weeks.

Thats when I started looking into Computer/Networking Certifications. Why pay 150 bucks that will essentially get me nothing but college credits, when I can purchase an CompTIA A+ cert guide for 30-40 bucks, study the material like I would the other book and come out with something that I could actually use to get me job? My brother in law went a similar route with ITT, except it pains him to this day that he essentially has nothing until he receives the degree from his school.

Now for certain subjects, I could understand the need for a textbook for credits, to build your foundations. However for something like a trade I would never even consider college credits just because of the sham textbooks that are offered. For Computers? Surf OCN, Purchase A+/N+ cert guide or just trial the VCE via Exam Collection and you are set. Cisco? My instructor tells me How2pass site is the way to go. Theres a lot of Certifications for computers and networking. Server+,Storage+, Green IT, PDI+, Cloud, Project+ Sales to name a few from CompTIA
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4930mx 3.5Ghz .97v AW17 Ranger 780m 1006c/2800m 16GB DDR3 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
256GB SSD 2TB FireCuda 7mm 2TB Firecuda 7mm 1TB Seagate SSHD 
OSMonitorPowerMouse
Windows 10 x64 Pro 17" 1080p120hz TrueColor  330w Delta  G502 Proteus Spectrum 
Audio
SHP9500 w/ HM5 pads & MM4 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4930mx 3.5Ghz .97v AW17 Ranger 780m 1006c/2800m 16GB DDR3 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
256GB SSD 2TB FireCuda 7mm 2TB Firecuda 7mm 1TB Seagate SSHD 
OSMonitorPowerMouse
Windows 10 x64 Pro 17" 1080p120hz TrueColor  330w Delta  G502 Proteus Spectrum 
Audio
SHP9500 w/ HM5 pads & MM4 
  hide details  
Reply
post #122 of 129
sooo when can we sell our ebooks then?
post #123 of 129
Quote:
“American publishers will face direct harm, because our markets will be open to a flood of copyrighted material that was intended for purchase overseas. By exploiting pricing models that are meant for students in undeveloped nations, importers both deny those students a full education, and threaten American publishers’ ability to do business abroad.”

And this is why text books cost soooo much. :|
Gaming
(23 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Crosshair IV Formula GTX 560 GTX 580 
RAMRAMRAMRAM
G. Skill F3-12800CL6D-4GBPI G. Skill F3-12800CL6D-4GBPI G. Skill F3-12800CL6D-4GBPI  G. Skill F3-12800CL6D-4GBPI 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Seagate Hard Drive Seagate Hard Drive Crucial M4 SSD Sony Optiarc 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Corsair H70 Windows 7 Professional x64 ASUS VH242H 23" Monitor ASUS VH242H 23" Monitor 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" Monitor Logitech G15 Corsair 1K PSU Lian-Li 70A 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech Performance MX Razer Vespula HT Omega Pro+ 
  hide details  
Reply
Gaming
(23 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Crosshair IV Formula GTX 560 GTX 580 
RAMRAMRAMRAM
G. Skill F3-12800CL6D-4GBPI G. Skill F3-12800CL6D-4GBPI G. Skill F3-12800CL6D-4GBPI  G. Skill F3-12800CL6D-4GBPI 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Seagate Hard Drive Seagate Hard Drive Crucial M4 SSD Sony Optiarc 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Corsair H70 Windows 7 Professional x64 ASUS VH242H 23" Monitor ASUS VH242H 23" Monitor 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" Monitor Logitech G15 Corsair 1K PSU Lian-Li 70A 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech Performance MX Razer Vespula HT Omega Pro+ 
  hide details  
Reply
post #124 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0 View Post

And this is why text books cost soooo much. :|

Nope. just gonna say that.. and again: Nope.
 
Rebeccas Dator
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I5 2500K Asus P8P67 Pro  6950 DCII G.skill 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Intel 330 Seagate Barracuda WD Green OCZ Vertex 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
H212 W7 21.5 Sidewinder x4/Lenovo with Trackpoint 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec 900w Define r2 MX518 Qpad 1.5mm 
Audio
Edifier R1900TII 2.0 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
II X4 965 Gigabyte GA-MA785GMT-UD2H Sapphire 5770 DDR3 1600mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2x 500gb DVD H212 windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3x Benq 21.5 inch X4 chieftec 650w Define mini 
Mouse
mx518 
  hide details  
Reply
 
Rebeccas Dator
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I5 2500K Asus P8P67 Pro  6950 DCII G.skill 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Intel 330 Seagate Barracuda WD Green OCZ Vertex 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
H212 W7 21.5 Sidewinder x4/Lenovo with Trackpoint 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec 900w Define r2 MX518 Qpad 1.5mm 
Audio
Edifier R1900TII 2.0 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
II X4 965 Gigabyte GA-MA785GMT-UD2H Sapphire 5770 DDR3 1600mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2x 500gb DVD H212 windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3x Benq 21.5 inch X4 chieftec 650w Define mini 
Mouse
mx518 
  hide details  
Reply
post #125 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rykoshet View Post

It all depends on how you look at it.

You can pay for taxes, take home less, and know that you won't have to pay for things like healthcare, education, etc. And if you lose your job, you won't have to worry because your taxes funded a system to help you.

Or you can pay less taxes, and take a gamble when it comes to things like healthcare, social systems, etc. Studies have shown that much more personal benefit comes from income equality of the society.

Personally, I'm happier knowing that me and those around me have safety nets, which in the long run reduce stress, need for crime, etc, and do wonders for the health of the society. That and having women in politics...

Actually, the US is the country that spends the most (% of GPD) in public healthcare... and, as funny as it is, it covers a pretty terrible % of the population. I'm not saying euro's system is perfect, as its far from it, but it is far more efficient.

With that said, though, free things are NEVER good, as you tend to over-use them. There have been a lot of talks in my country about putting in place some sort of "pay-per-use" tax in our healthcare system, and I'm actually pro such idea. Something as little as $5 per visit would mean that people would only use those services when really needed... and not for a stupid cold or a running nose on their kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post

You are aware that lesser developed countries will now suffer as a result of the Supreme Court's decision? That the publishers will no longer opt to sell lower priced goods in those countries that were intended to only be bought and sold in those countries?

As I said before, the purpose of the law was good, the implementation that tied it to copyright is where it was flawed.

What? You clearly don't understand the markets if you say so. Companies don't lower their prices on other countries "just because", they do it because they wouldn't sell anything if they didn't. This law will change NOTHING, as if they increase the prices on foreign countries... their sales will diminish.

Also, do you realise there are other english countries out there that publish college books, right? And that, even more, books can be translated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiNet View Post

Extreme bs in that quote. The law was only protecting them to milk other countries, US in particular. Is he selling books that are subsidized by government or institute? No? Why the hell they are charging so much more than for the same book?
Good will to help poor countries? haha, yeah, sure.

I thought the same thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Well considering that is 7 billion and the US has only 305 million (ie 30 times), I have no doubt that there are many more of "the best" in the rest of the world as opposed to just the US because I seriously doubt there are 30 times as many "the best" in the world as there are in the US.

For cutting edge medical procedures, you generally hear more stories of people coming to the US than going to other countries from the US. The only exception are "medical vacations" to poorer nations, but that is more about the cost for "trivial" procedures rather than about quality of health care.

Again, I am just talking quality of medical procedures, NOT cost or insurance.

But that doesn't change my statement (ie opinion), that health care is better in the US than pretty much the rest of the world. So we will just agree to disagree.

If you talk about top-of-the-line doctors, IE the ones you can only afford if you are wealthy... then yes, you might be right. But if you are talking about what the middle class might afford, then no, you aren't. Insurance companies are known for cutting a buck wherever they can... and doing so in health-care, might mean your life. Heck, it's not uncommon in the US for insurance companies to make very "funny" changes in their policies as a way to not cover somebody who got sick and had a very expensive treatment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Of all books? Any book? I am not current with Australian copyright law, but I don't think that would be legal in most places in the world. Well, unless they got permission some how.

In Spain all college libraries are filled with the books that are required for class. It's not legal by any means to copy them (there aren't many shops that will do it anyway), but you can take them home for a few days, bring them back, and take them again. Also, many universities run their own publisher... and they produce the books that will be used at class, and sell them at close to cost (more expensive book that I saw was... $50, and I kid you not; that was in mechanical engineering).

Also, in my university books are hardly ever used (well, of course, in a law degree you will use them, as you study the law's themselves, and they are written the way they are). They encourage to add content to every subject on your own, and the list of recommended books is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge... but every single note that teachers give in class gets uploaded to a server, and even some university books are. Meaning: in the past 3 years I've spent less than $100 in books. But still, my whole career would cost around $4000 (yup, around $1000 per year, provided you pass all the subjects at once, as they double every time you fail), which is kinda the standard price in Spain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

The really sad thing is that you could get that education and then leave the country...then it really would be free at a low cost as you wouldn't be paying the taxes to support the system. Are people handed a bill if they leave the country?

In Spain this happens (and it pisses me off, if anything because there is close to no chance of flourishing here), and its completely legal. A friend of mine just finished aerospace engineering a few months ago, and he will go to work to the UK. Reason? They offer him 30k GBP a year as his first job (testing engineer in Rolls Royce... although he refused a far better offer because he liked this one better), whereas in Spain they were offering... 20k € / year.

So, yup. Still, you pay your taxes to get the education, there shouldn't be any sort of punishment not for staying. Heck, I'm kinda sure that I'll leave the country once I'm done with my career, as its not my fault that there is close to no future in this country, as much as I love my pretty little island.
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5 2500k MSI P67 GD65 GTX460 1GB GTX460 1GB 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
G. Skill Ripjaws Crucial C300 Prolimatech Megahalems + 2 x GT AP15 Win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2311H Noppoo Choc mini Corsair HX620 Microcool Banchetto rev. 2.0 black aluminium 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Zowie EC1 Zowie Fiio E7 + E9 / Sennheiser HD 25 1 II 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5 2500k MSI P67 GD65 GTX460 1GB GTX460 1GB 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
G. Skill Ripjaws Crucial C300 Prolimatech Megahalems + 2 x GT AP15 Win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2311H Noppoo Choc mini Corsair HX620 Microcool Banchetto rev. 2.0 black aluminium 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Zowie EC1 Zowie Fiio E7 + E9 / Sennheiser HD 25 1 II 
  hide details  
Reply
post #126 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindrage606 View Post

I'll gladly pay $250+ for higher end textbook in physics, chemistry, biochemistry. My undergraduate degree was in biochemistry and I know that senior and graduate level textbooks in these areas change little in the span of a decade.

Look at from this point of view:

Info in these areas take a really special type of person to write and collect in a presentable manner -- SO much time and work goes into writing, and publishing research... I have seen it first hand. Much of it undervalued and similar to an unsung hero of academics.

More importantly, it keeps the VALUE of a degree higher. Opportunity cost being factored and money paid out nets a higher cost to ATTAIN a degree. Therefore, it present a barrier to those unable to fend for a $250 x classes. Its as a university professor put it: I had to do it. The person before me had to do it, it NOT equal or fair if the next person does not. It's a good thing in a cutthroat world where the market is flooded with degrees, as I believe that a university degree is privilege and should be seen as such.

Academics is a strange creature, one pays to be in a life of servitude. In a way, it teaches humility and power of the mind.

Edit: Freshman lvl book cover change -chapter rearrange, so we can call it a new edition to charge $$$ is WRONG.

This is ridiculous. You think books should continue to be expensive so that you can keep people that cant afford them out of school to "keep the value of your degree high"? Thats just plain silly. Since you (your parents most likely) can afford it, you see no issue with it. Why am I not surprised by this? God forbid you have to compete with other prospective hires with your skills rather than what your degree says you can do. I mean..if everyone had a degree you might actually have to stand out right?

Prohibiting people from pursuing higher education due to the cost so that you can pat yourself on the back is just wrong. Textbook cost is a money grab, plain and simple.
Edited by RX7-2nr - 3/20/13 at 5:23pm
post #127 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by RX7-2nr View Post

This is ridiculous. You think books should continue to be expensive so that you can keep people that cant afford them out of school to "keep the value of your degree high"? Thats just plain silly. Since you (your parents most likely) can afford it, you see no issue with it. Why am I not surprised by this? God forbid you have to compete with other prospective hires with your skills rather than what your degree says you can do. I mean..if everyone had a degree you might actually have to stand out right?

Prohibiting people from pursuing higher education due to the cost so that you can pat yourself on the back is just wrong. Textbook cost is a money grab, plain and simple.

Yup, if they want to limit the number of degrees, isn't it far easier to limit the amount of degrees issued every year? It would also improve the quality of them, too.
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5 2500k MSI P67 GD65 GTX460 1GB GTX460 1GB 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
G. Skill Ripjaws Crucial C300 Prolimatech Megahalems + 2 x GT AP15 Win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2311H Noppoo Choc mini Corsair HX620 Microcool Banchetto rev. 2.0 black aluminium 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Zowie EC1 Zowie Fiio E7 + E9 / Sennheiser HD 25 1 II 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5 2500k MSI P67 GD65 GTX460 1GB GTX460 1GB 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
G. Skill Ripjaws Crucial C300 Prolimatech Megahalems + 2 x GT AP15 Win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2311H Noppoo Choc mini Corsair HX620 Microcool Banchetto rev. 2.0 black aluminium 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Zowie EC1 Zowie Fiio E7 + E9 / Sennheiser HD 25 1 II 
  hide details  
Reply
post #128 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

Yup, if they want to limit the number of degrees, isn't it far easier to limit the amount of degrees issued every year? It would also improve the quality of them, too.

I dont know about that, in the end you would just be a graduate with little to no experience within your field of work. While others getting lesser degree's certifications will have already been working and have experience in the present. Gaining knowledge and being able to gain more certifications to stack on top of their work experience.

I just dont think schools are much for the students much lately, however that could just be my sour experience here in Abilene and DFW Area, therefore I may be biased at this point
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4930mx 3.5Ghz .97v AW17 Ranger 780m 1006c/2800m 16GB DDR3 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
256GB SSD 2TB FireCuda 7mm 2TB Firecuda 7mm 1TB Seagate SSHD 
OSMonitorPowerMouse
Windows 10 x64 Pro 17" 1080p120hz TrueColor  330w Delta  G502 Proteus Spectrum 
Audio
SHP9500 w/ HM5 pads & MM4 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4930mx 3.5Ghz .97v AW17 Ranger 780m 1006c/2800m 16GB DDR3 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
256GB SSD 2TB FireCuda 7mm 2TB Firecuda 7mm 1TB Seagate SSHD 
OSMonitorPowerMouse
Windows 10 x64 Pro 17" 1080p120hz TrueColor  330w Delta  G502 Proteus Spectrum 
Audio
SHP9500 w/ HM5 pads & MM4 
  hide details  
Reply
post #129 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0 View Post

And this is why text books cost soooo much. :|

I don't agree with that. Just because a market can't support putting a $500 price tag on a book doesn't mean a publisher should have to put a $100 price tag on it. A book costs what a book costs. If it is the same book in two places...the price should be the same. Granted if it was printed over seas there will be some difference in price due to the cost of supplies and labor to print the book...but should it be a large difference?

Now I pose the question was the $500 price tag subsidizing the $100 price tag or was the $100 price tag what the book actually cost to make? And if it was that cheap to make them in that location then a smart business would make all their books there. Which means more jobs getting off shored, but I think this is a case where the majority of people would be OK with the idea since college students are definitely a group that needs a saving point.
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
2600K @ 4.7GHz Asus P8P67 B3 GTX 580 EVGA Hydro Copper 2 GTX 580 EVGA  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws bunch of 'em Blu-Ray For movies Windows 8.1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
24.4" Hans G HH251 X2 Yamakasi DS270  Blah 1000watt Super Flower 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Built into Desk Microsoft SideWinder X8 Comfy one... Creative Extreme Gamer 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
2600K @ 4.7GHz Asus P8P67 B3 GTX 580 EVGA Hydro Copper 2 GTX 580 EVGA  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws bunch of 'em Blu-Ray For movies Windows 8.1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
24.4" Hans G HH251 X2 Yamakasi DS270  Blah 1000watt Super Flower 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Built into Desk Microsoft SideWinder X8 Comfy one... Creative Extreme Gamer 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [nbcnews] Supreme Court backs student in dispute over used textbook sales