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[nbcnews] Supreme Court backs student in dispute over used textbook sales - Page 7

post #61 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5entinel View Post

I can't believe this was against the law...

You are aware that lesser developed countries will now suffer as a result of the Supreme Court's decision? That the publishers will no longer opt to sell lower priced goods in those countries that were intended to only be bought and sold in those countries?

As I said before, the purpose of the law was good, the implementation that tied it to copyright is where it was flawed.
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post #62 of 129
Student textbooks... I can see how paying 250$ or even £ for a natural science textbook is fair, even some history books could motivate that price, not if they were written in english but translations of French and German slim subject books would be worth that to me, but they'd probably cost 2500$ given the general lack of interest in the subjects. Anyway, buying stuff from Amazon.co.uk has saved me on many occassions.

As for changing texbooks every year in order to sell a new edition, bleh. Atleast where i come from you can copy a few pages from a book without commiting a crime, nifty way to get around the new edition crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post

You are aware that lesser developed countries will now suffer as a result of the Supreme Court's decision? That the publishers will no longer opt to sell lower priced goods in those countries that were intended to only be bought and sold in those countries?

As I said before, the purpose of the law was good, the implementation that tied it to copyright is where it was flawed.

No they won't it's a silly argument that's always been silly. Remember China?
 
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post #63 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post

That the publishers will no longer opt to sell lower priced goods in those countries that were intended to only be bought and sold in those countries?

isn't this the reason/way it is tied to copyright law?

but the fact it was tied to copyright law is bad?
post #64 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huzzbutt View Post

No they won't it's a silly argument that's always been silly. Remember China?

Clearly I am as silly as 3 members of the SCOTUS. I'm glad you have such a high opinion of my mental faculties as to elevate me to their level. thumb.gif

Quote:
In a dissent for herself and Justices Anthony Kennedy and Antonin Scalia, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said the court was ignoring Congress’ aim of protecting “copyright owners against the unauthorized importation of low-priced, foreign-made copies of their copyrighted works.”

The movie and music businesses, software makers and other manufacturers worry that the decision allows unauthorized sales to undercut their businesses.

“The ruling for Kirtsaeng will send a tremor through the publishing industries, harming both U.S. businesses and consumers around the world. Today’s decision will create a strong disincentive for publishers to market different versions and sell copies at different prices in different regions. The practical result may very well be that consumers and students abroad will see dramatic price increases or entirely lose their access to valuable U.S. resources created specifically for them,” said Keith Kupferschmid, general counsel for the Software & Information Industry Association.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-says-copyright-law-does-not-protect-publishers-in-discount-re-sales/2013/03/19/68b8afd4-909f-11e2-9173-7f87cda73b49_story.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

isn't this the reason/way it is tied to copyright law?

but the fact it was tied to copyright law is bad?

They could have made a "Not for Import" law that was completely separate from copyright law. They have it for food and drugs, why not for books and other goods that are sold at lower prices for less developed economies?
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post #65 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post


Yeah I'm sticking with the other six and up the stake by pointing out that leaving markets whose potential is far greater than the US and UK is a very bad idea.
 
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post #66 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post

Clearly I am as silly as 3 members of the SCOTUS. I'm glad you have such a high opinion of my mental faculties as to elevate me to their level. thumb.gif
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-says-copyright-law-does-not-protect-publishers-in-discount-re-sales/2013/03/19/68b8afd4-909f-11e2-9173-7f87cda73b49_story.html
They could have made a "Not for Import" law that was completely separate from copyright law. They have it for food and drugs, why not for books and other goods that are sold at lower prices for less developed economies?

Extreme bs in that quote. The law was only protecting them to milk other countries, US in particular. Is he selling books that are subsidized by government or institute? No? Why the hell they are charging so much more than for the same book?
Good will to help poor countries? haha, yeah, sure.
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post #67 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huzzbutt View Post

Yeah I'm sticking with the other six and up the stake by pointing out that leaving markets whose potential is far greater than the US and UK is a very bad idea.

Quote:
The decision will have consequences for all manner of products, including books, records, art and software. Industry groups had told the justices that a decision permitting copyrighted foreign goods to be sold in the United States would limit their ability to sell materials more cheaply in developing markets and result in higher prices overall.
Quote:
“It should not be overlooked,” she [Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg] wrote, “that the ability to prevent importation of foreign-made copies encourages copyright owners such as Wiley to offer copies of their works at reduced prices to consumers in less developed countries who might otherwise be unable to afford them.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/business/supreme-court-eases-sale-of-certain-products-abroad.html?_r=0

I agree that the majority made the right decision, have no doubt about that. Had they sided with the law and the publishers, reselling virtually anything would have been illegal. That said, the majority decision has downsides elsewhere, but in the end it is the lesser evil and therefore the right choice. It is definitely not a win-win situation though and the lesser developed economies (and those folks that enjoyed gray market goods in the US) will suffer for it.

Which is why I've been saying the entire time, protect against re-importation through a method other than copyright and the problem is solved and no one loses out. Other than the gray market folk but I doubt they'd be too fussed about it and would keep doing it anyway.
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post #68 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/business/supreme-court-eases-sale-of-certain-products-abroad.html?_r=0

I agree that the majority made the right decision, have no doubt about that. Had they sided with the law and the publishers, reselling virtually anything would have been illegal. That said, the majority decision has downsides elsewhere, but in the end it is the lesser evil and therefore the right choice. It is definitely not a win-win situation though and the lesser developed economies (and those folks that enjoyed gray market goods in the US) will suffer for it.

Which is why I've been saying the entire time, protect against re-importation through a method other than copyright and the problem is solved and no one loses out. Other than the gray market folk but I doubt they'd be too fussed about it and would keep doing it anyway.

Don't mistake reasonable excuse with real cause and effect. If anything ths will be a push towards more translation (which adds to the cost in a good way)
It's a common practice to simply copy textbooks in poor countries, low prices for us is still too high for them. Hell sometimes they can be too high for us in the developed world or even worse, not even available, had a fair deal of lecturers making copies of several chapters because thats the only way one can obtain the book in a reasonable timeframe.
 
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post #69 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausageson View Post

University textbooks are the greatest sham money maker taking advantage of already poor students. At my University as well as others in Toronto they change the textbook every semester/year with only the cover being changed, chapters are the exact same while the problems range from being placed on a different page number or at best using different numbers/ names in the problem; its despicable. One person was using a photocopied textbook in a binder, the prof took it from her yelled and belittled her in front of everyone in the class then destroyed it right in front of her. You can bet as soon as class was done everyone urged her to file a complaint.

Exactly. They do "revisions" on most text books every year or every other year, to change 1 or 2 things just so they can justify making your book worthless and having to buy a "brand new" text.

Even though my brother and I went to college 10 years apart, we had 5 revisions of the same text book, and when we actually looked at was different between the two, it was less than 20 pages different. It was an Accounting I text.
post #70 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post

Re-importation deemed illegal by the law that the Supreme Court just chose to ignore. The seller was operating in the colloquial "gray market" and even though he was vindicated by the Court, it's going to screw things up rather royally. Still it's the lesser evil, I would have been aghast had they sided with the publishers.
For first world countries. And even then not so much. I am sure many would have preferred the gray market to remain a viable option but this one guy had to go and get too big about it and ruin it for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post

You are aware that lesser developed countries will now suffer as a result of the Supreme Court's decision? That the publishers will no longer opt to sell lower priced goods in those countries that were intended to only be bought and sold in those countries?

As I said before, the purpose of the law was good, the implementation that tied it to copyright is where it was flawed.
Fear mongering. You are not the first or the last to stipulate this and be completely wrong. Bottom line is that the total revenue from those less developed countries far outweighs the revenue loss incurred as a result of any resale of books brought back into the country from external sources. Every one of these producers/publishers knows this and will not change anything in their business model. What this amounts to from the producers/publishers side is that they would like to be able to control the market pricing (effectively price fixing) and they do not like the fact that there is any legally upheld decision that may get in the way of that.
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