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Intel Haswell will be a failure. - Page 3  

post #21 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel View Post

Actually the iGPU performance doesn't look half bad. If there were an i3 with the high end iGPU, it would make a nice neat little HTPC.

The GT3 Graphics will not be seen on desktop sku's. Only mobile. But again, if you're not gaming ANY intel iGPU is overkill for HTPC like applications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliew View Post

The problem with Ivy wasnt ONLY that they used a TIM instead of soldering, it was the quality and method of appliance of the TIM.

Otherwise delidding wouldnt help much unless you actually SOLDER the damn heatspreader on again. People just apply TIM PROPERLY and then re-lid it right back.



Doesnt matter if Haswell is soldered or TIM'ed, as long as the TIM material is high quality and the method is perfected. People are discussing if the latest batch of 3570k's are using a new method, since theyre hitting 4,5ghz under 1,2v vcore. And you can be certain that Intel will be better this time around. And theyre able to use a lot better techniques than the "half a rice-grain" technique with pinpoint precision robotics smile.gif.

This.

People have been seeing 15c temp drops by simply using MX-4 or similar stuff. The cool labs liquid pro and ultra yield as much as a 30c difference at high overclocks. Personally I am too chicken to do it but if I did I would do it right and go with the liquid pro.
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post #22 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayjr1105 View Post

The GT3 Graphics will not be seen on desktop sku's. Only mobile. But again, if you're not gaming ANY intel iGPU is overkill for HTPC like applications.
This.

People have been seeing 15c temp drops by simply using MX-4 or similar stuff. The cool labs liquid pro and ultra yield as much as a 30c difference at high overclocks. Personally I am too chicken to do it but if I did I would do it right and go with the liquid pro.


Idd, and using a high quality metal compound will be perfectly fine for intel Id think, seeing as its such a small sacrifice to make the product more than 10% better on the average overclockers rig smile.gif.
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post #23 of 65
Let have a recap:

IVB was 10% better than Sandy. Max realistic OC on Sandy was 5 Ghz. IVB is around 4.7 Ghz. So for all the squeaking that people have made about the TIM being terrible blah blah blah, really it didn't make a difference in the end.

GT3 has on package memory (which isn't the same as L4 cache, which HSW doesn't have) that is hugely faster than AMD's solution of using system memory. This by itself will eat AMD's APU lunch.

Basically Haswell is going to offer everything that AMD can, and more.

My concern with Haswell is the integrated voltage controller. I've got a nice 100+ slide ppt that explains how it works and all, but the big question mark is how well it will actually be implemented in Si. If it's done well then it's no big deal. Done poorly and we have "dirty" power or inefficient power being fed to the cores and uncore, then that's going to cripple overclocking.
post #24 of 65
It will be good for enthusiasts (better than any AMD CPU at least) and for laptops it will be much better than AMD again purely for power consumption reasons. Very few people actually run fully fledged APUs as desktop systems..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Amik Vase View Post

It'll be a failure but I'll still buy it if it has at least a 20% improvement on SB.

It wont. IB is less than 5% over SB and the average results from those toms tests were around 5% over IB for haswell. People just say IB is 10% over SB and haswell is 10% over IB for some reason, easier to say I guess but it's not true.
 
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post #25 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post


It wont. IB is less than 5% over SB and the average results from those toms tests were around 5% over IB for haswell. People just say IB is 10% over SB and haswell is 10% over IB for some reason, easier to say I guess but it's not true.

Reading helps too:
Quote:
Core i7-4770K is in the neighborhood of 7 to 13% faster than Core i7-3770K in today’s threaded workloads. That’s pretty consistent with the evolution from Sandy to Ivy Bridge
post #26 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

It will be good for enthusiasts (better than any AMD CPU at least) and for laptops it will be much better than AMD again purely for power consumption reasons. Very few people actually run fully fledged APUs as desktop systems..
It wont. IB is less than 5% over SB and the average results from those toms tests were around 5% over IB for haswell. People just say IB is 10% over SB and haswell is 10% over IB for some reason, easier to say I guess but it's not true.


I also feel IB is clock for clock about 10% better than Sandy pretty much exactly (at least for benchmarks, and lets face it... gaming wize they both bottleneck if they bottleneck and max everything they dont bottleneck in).


As for Sandy having on average higher overclocks:

Ivy does require less voltage, so motherboards etc can take Ivy higher. The only reason the average OC is lower is because of the heat issues due to the TIM. Which is the hottest topic about haswell for me.
But lets be honest. Everyone with half a brain will wait for a month or so after release to see what numbers people are getting, if they mega-deteriorate etc etc etc.

I wont be Beta-testing intels new stuff bearing in mind what Ivy promised us and what it delivered. At least not at such a cost.


Oh and lets not forget that the new chipset will feature 3ghz memory, better Sata 6 ports etc etc etc.
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post #27 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonashendrickx View Post

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-performance,3461.html


Looks like A10-5800k is faster than Haswell's GT2 iGPU.


Haswell's GT3 can be compared to a GT650M DDR3.


For laptops Haswell may be a improvement so far. Let's just hope faster DDR3 modules may find themselves to the mobile market. I think Haswell may find a success with DDR4's increased memory bandwidth.


So far I think the CPU side of Haswell is worthless. But let's not judge too early. I haven't seen AVX2 being used yet. Which might come in handy for PCSX2 for example. I think AVX2 is a real step forward.

I am skipping desktops in the future due to inferior TIM may be used.


Wat are you guys expecting of Haswell?

lolz contradict yourself much? And the very first preview on Tomshardware had AVX2 vs AVX benches on Haswell.
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post #28 of 65
Failure for HTPCs without GPUs maybe.

Failure for people that have 1155 motherboards that can swap to Ivy Bridge.

Not a failure for people that have Socket 775/AM2+ and for some reason don't want to go Ivy Bridge or Vishera.

The biggest thing that can do is make the crappy temperatures go down by properly putting on the IHS. But that won't matter to anyone not pushing > 4.5GHZ OCs, which is not many users.
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post #29 of 65
Explain?
post #30 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Not a failure for people that have Socket 775/AM2+ and for some reason don't want to go Ivy Bridge or Vishera.
I want to go Ivy or Vishera. Anything really tongue.gif
OT: I don't think Haswell will be a failure, but we shall see in the near future eh?
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