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Intel Haswell will be a failure. - Page 5  

post #41 of 65
I think Haswell will do quite well.

First, Tom’s hardware was a very poor review. We have no idea what board, chipset, and memory they used. The memory was also under performing by 20% compared to the other chips, and they did not touch gaming or overclocking.

However, if the review is true, it still beat the i7-3770k in almost every way!

The floating-point performance was particularly impressive, with a gain of almost 25% over i7-3770k. This will help a lot with gaming since it should mean a huge boost for CPU based physics engines, such as the (Intel owned) Havok engine used in almost every major game.

The other big benefit I see is the new chipset. I do not know how many people noticed, but you cannot run two video cards at 16x mode SLI on the z77 chipset. (8x/8x only). The new one supposedly will be able to run this, which should help high-end gaming performance.

I would also point out that none of this is based on actual retail chips and boards, just speculation, leaks that may or may not be true, and a rather incomplete review of an engineering sample.

We will probably have to wait until June for the real numbers, including overclocking.
post #42 of 65
^^ PCIe 3.0 x8 is still way overpowered for video cards. I think you could run x4 and still not run out of bandwidth, since x4 3.0 is the same as x8 2.0, which is still OK. I'm hoping we see Z77 with more SATA 6 ports. It's annoying that Z77 natively only support 2 SATA 6 drives in raid. I wants me Raid 0 with 4 drives!

In case anyone cares for a factoid, it probably was a shipping ES, meaning that it's the same thing that's going out to retailers right now. Just yesterday alone 10's of thousands of die of HSW were fabbed. Don't know how that compares to Ivy's initial ramp, but it seems like a lot.
post #43 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psquared View Post

I think Haswell will do quite well.
The other big benefit I see is the new chipset. I do not know how many people noticed, but you cannot run two video cards at 16x mode SLI on the z77 chipset. (8x/8x only). The new one supposedly will be able to run this, which should help high-end gaming performance.

That's incorrect.

Z87 can do the following PCIe 3.0 configurations: 16 x 1, 8 x 2, or 8 x 1 + 4 x 2. It also improves the SATA ports by going from 4x SATA-II + 2x SATA-III to 6x SATA-III.

H87 largely is the same, with the major differences being that it it doesn't support overclocking and can only do PCIe 3.0 with 16 x 1 or 8 x 2.

B85 can't be overclocked, has 2 less USB 2.0 ports, is limited to PCIe 3.0 16 x 1 (no support for SLI/CFX), and has 2x SATA-II and 4x SATA-III ports. Still an improvement over B75's single SATA-III and 5 SATA-II ports.

The biggest difference in the new lineup is that if you don't want to OC but still want to support 2 video cards, you can get a less-expensive H87 board. I'm sure that many pre-built manufacturers (HP, Dell, etc.) are going to use that chipset for said purpose.

I'm of the opinion that the current H77 didn't really have much of a niche, as it was too crippled to go against the Z87 (no SLI/CFX) and the only things that it had over the B75 were Smart Response Technology, an extra SATA-III port and 2 extra USB 2.0 ports...
Edited by svenge - 3/21/13 at 3:14pm
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post #44 of 65
Haswell with the toms hardware review doesnt look like a failure nor a success. At this point, looks like ill wait for the next generation after haswell.
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post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr/owned View Post

^^ PCIe 3.0 x8 is still way overpowered for video cards. I think you could run x4 and still not run out of bandwidth, since x4 3.0 is the same as x8 2.0, which is still OK. I'm hoping we see Z77 with more SATA 6 ports. It's annoying that Z77 natively only support 2 SATA 6 drives in raid. I wants me Raid 0 with 4 drives!

In case anyone cares for a factoid, it probably was a shipping ES, meaning that it's the same thing that's going out to retailers right now. Just yesterday alone 10's of thousands of die of HSW were fabbed. Don't know how that compares to Ivy's initial ramp, but it seems like a lot.


Tests over at tpu have shown 3.0 x4 is faster then 2.0 X8. Hovers around 2.0 X12
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post #46 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliew View Post

Doesnt matter if Haswell is soldered or TIM'ed, as long as the TIM material is high quality and the method is perfected. People are discussing if the latest batch of 3570k's are using a new method, since theyre hitting 4,5ghz under 1,2v vcore. And you can be certain that Intel will be better this time around. And theyre able to use a lot better techniques than the "half a rice-grain" technique with pinpoint precision robotics smile.gif.

 

This is probably true.

 

I'm 100% stable, 4.5 ghz @ 1.12 volt and I can boot 5ghz @ 1.3 volt on air.

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post #47 of 65
"Intel Haswell will be a failure."

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonashendrickx View Post


But let's not judge too early.

Uh.
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post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by splinterize View Post

This is probably true.

I'm 100% stable, 4.5 ghz @ 1.12 volt and I can boot 5ghz @ 1.3 volt on air.
http://valid.canardpc.com/2692407


Righto, so when that method is perfected and they start pushing out 200mhz faster cpus with 10% better IPC that clock even better?


And the 15% price reduction in AMD processors coming in, isnt that sort of something pointing at the fact that AMD is crapping their pants atm?
I trust the biggest competitor to intel to have a better understanding of Haswell than I do.


Now for another big question:

Will hyperthreading 4+4ht compete with AMDS 8cores in games made for 8core calculations?


Thats really where the winner will be. Because maybe, just maybe, we wont have to suffer through these crappy console-ports for much longer.
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post #49 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliew View Post

Righto, so when that method is perfected and they start pushing out 200mhz faster cpus with 10% better IPC that clock even better?


And the 15% price reduction in AMD processors coming in, isnt that sort of something pointing at the fact that AMD is crapping their pants atm?
I trust the biggest competitor to intel to have a better understanding of Haswell than I do.


Now for another big question:

Will hyperthreading 4+4ht compete with AMDS 8cores in games made for 8core calculations?

Thats really where the winner will be. Because maybe, just maybe, we wont have to suffer through these crappy console-ports for much longer.

AMD's move is understandable. They're looking to hit the consumer who does not have deep pockets where Intel is looking for those who have.nIf they can do it with existing hardware and still make money then good on 'em. Too, in the last few months we have seen AMD slowly creeping up in benches as apps and games start to have better multi-core support.

At this point I have a hard time envisioning an Intel chip with HT beating an AMD with proper optimization, but who knows? Anything is possible until the release or some legitimate benches of production samples.
post #50 of 65
Apparently haswell isnt really a leap forward in ipc or anything like this.
Its focusing on improving the iGPU.

Also, there has been some serious hinting that Haswell will also be a heavy overclocker due to new power management.

Lets not all jump to conclusions when all we have is a Toms article.
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