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post #31 of 40
Thread Starter 
First off, Beats by Dre is the obvious winner here. What, have you all forgot about Dre? Thank you all for the very informative posts. I have enjoyed reading and learning from each and every one of them. Also, I appreciate the time and effort everyone has put into them

It seems there are varying opinions and options that I could go from here. From what it seems like to me, I need to decide on a few different setup options.(onboard vs external, integrated vs external amp, etc) I really want the card to be great for positional audio when I am gaming. 3D sound is something I enjoy with my speaker system and I have found it useful for online gaming. With that said I have a few questions.

It seems there are setups that are great for listening to music, and others for gaming. Is there a general give-and-take relationship between choosing one that is good for gaming vs. one that performs well with music? If so, I would probably choose gaming performance over music just because I will spend more time with that activity. I know my headphones being closed are not perfect for this, but it is still something I find advantageous while gaming.

1.) External Card vs Internal Card...Why is one better than the other?

2.) Amp.....What is the added benefit of going with an external amp such as a FIIO E9 vs the onboard amp on the Xonar STX. Keep in mind that my headphones are not as demanding as most in this category.

3.) Creative vs Asus.....seems I am being recommended these two brands. Right now I am leaning towards ASUS. Is there general differences that can be assumed in the comparison of these two? I've read that Creative = good for gaming.......ASUS = better for music and good for gaming, but not as good as Creative........I know of no way to objectively back up those statements, it is just what I have read in the threads provided. Just wondering what the thoughts were on the Asus Xonar STX vs Creative Titanium HD?

4.) Setup options:
A.) Internal Card w/ onboard amp and call it a day
i.) Xonar STX
B.) Internal card, external amp
i.) Xonar DX, FIIO E9 or E7
ii.) Creative Titanium, FIIO E9 or E7
C.) External Card and Amp
i.) Focusrite Saffire 6 usb
ii.) Others?

It seems like it comes down to choosing whether I need an external amp or just an onboard, choosing creative vs asus, or just forgetting internal cards and going external and exploring those options.

Thanks!
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post #32 of 40
At your price point, and the fact that you want to use it for gaming (and get a somewhat 3D signal), you'd probably be better off going with the internal card. I'm probably wrong here, but I don't know of any/many external cards that do 3D audio. Most output to a stereo signal for headphones (not talking about speakers here).

I think you're generally right about the Creative vs ASUS argument, with the exception being the $250 ZxR that seems to be very highly recommended as an internal card for audiophiles.

You might get a cleaner sound out of the $198 Magni/Modi stack from Schiit (you know, to further complicate your decision making process smile.gif), but it would be stereo only, and you might not even notice the difference.

Both of the cards you mentioned (the STX vs the TiHD) will do very well with your headphones; though the STX would be a better choice if you plan on upgrading the headphones in the future due to the amp (providing you don't want to buy an external amp).

There may not be an advantage to running the TiHD or Xonar DX into a FiiO E7, since it also has DAC capabilities. In theory, you could just use the E7 (or its big brother the E17) since both are DAC/Amp combos; plus you have the option of portability.

Regarding the External vs Internal: There is a small chance that interference could be introduced to an internal signal that would not be present over the USB or Optical connection to an External DAC. This would be especially noticeable with onboard sound vs either of the 2 options.

The downfall of some external devices is the power supply. If it's not constructed properly it will introduce noise (hence my comment about there being a lot of crap out there).
post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Beregond View Post

No offense but you come off as an @$$ sometimes, no actually pretty much any thread I read your posts in.

Anyway...going from onboard to a Xonar Essence STX for me made a huge difference. I can absolutely hear things I never heard on onboard. I won't go back.
Sound cards don't go obsolete very quickly and the STX is still the best sound card with the exception for games that use EAX.
I recently got the Xonar DX, I'm not an audiophile but everything is so much clearer,the bass much deeper, also through headphones,and it doesn't even have a headamp.
I might pick up a Creative SB-Z at a local store just to try it out,it'll probably sound similar but still lacks the amount of components vs. even the Asus $30 DG card.
Edited by Heavy MG - 3/22/13 at 3:01am
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post #34 of 40
Just curious, if you are already running sound to your receiver via HDMI, why can't you just plug your headphones into the receiver?
post #35 of 40
Skeletor you're in the same boat as me. My only difference is a lean towards external so I
can position my audio jack near the front of my desk. This isn't a must if compromising sound.
post #36 of 40
Xonar STX gets my vote
    
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post #37 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Just curious, if you are already running sound to your receiver via HDMI, why can't you just plug your headphones into the receiver?

Thatswhat i do. Screw sounds cards
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post #38 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidzoo View Post

At your price point, and the fact that you want to use it for gaming (and get a somewhat 3D signal), you'd probably be better off going with the internal card. I'm probably wrong here, but I don't know of any/many external cards that do 3D audio. Most output to a stereo signal for headphones (not talking about speakers here).

I think you're generally right about the Creative vs ASUS argument, with the exception being the $250 ZxR that seems to be very highly recommended as an internal card for audiophiles.

You might get a cleaner sound out of the $198 Magni/Modi stack from Schiit (you know, to further complicate your decision making process smile.gif), but it would be stereo only, and you might not even notice the difference.

Both of the cards you mentioned (the STX vs the TiHD) will do very well with your headphones; though the STX would be a better choice if you plan on upgrading the headphones in the future due to the amp (providing you don't want to buy an external amp).

There may not be an advantage to running the TiHD or Xonar DX into a FiiO E7, since it also has DAC capabilities. In theory, you could just use the E7 (or its big brother the E17) since both are DAC/Amp combos; plus you have the option of portability.

Regarding the External vs Internal: There is a small chance that interference could be introduced to an internal signal that would not be present over the USB or Optical connection to an External DAC. This would be especially noticeable with onboard sound vs either of the 2 options.

The downfall of some external devices is the power supply. If it's not constructed properly it will introduce noise (hence my comment about there being a lot of crap out there).

Thank for breaking it down and answering all of my questions in great detail and in an understandable way. I appreciate you taking the time to compare cards and applying it to my situation. I guess my only question that is left after reading your post would be the option you said that might confuse the situation a little more. That being, the "Magni/Modi Stack from Schiit and the possibility of cleaner sound. Now would that setup produce 3d sound like the internal cards mentioned previously? Or is that more of a stereo/music configuration?

Also, in regards to the $250 ZxR, what makes that card so great and what advantages will this card have over the $170 STX? If it is going to offer me much better sound, then I may consider stretching the budget.

Thank for your help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

Sound cards don't go obsolete very quickly and the STX is still the best sound card with the exception for games that use EAX.
I recently got the Xonar DX, I'm not an audiophile but everything is so much clearer,the bass much deeper, also through headphones,and it doesn't even have a headamp.
I might pick up a Creative SB-Z at a local store just to try it out,it'll probably sound similar but still lacks the amount of components vs. even the Asus $30 DG card.

I believe the Xonar DX has the same DAC as the STX, if I recall from reading an earlier post. I am glad that the setup worked well for you. Right now, it seems that I will be going the STX route.

I appreciate your review and reply. Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Just curious, if you are already running sound to your receiver via HDMI, why can't you just plug your headphones into the receiver?

At the moment, this is what I am doing. The thing is, I am creating an office in a separate room for which there will be no speakers. So the receiver is staying in my living room to play my sound system. Thank you for mentioning that as that is the obvious choice if I was not moving.

i am curious as to how the sound card will compare against my receiver. The sound from my surround sound is excellent and I will miss that aspect as to moving my setup. The headphones are not able to go low like my Elemental Designs Subwoofer does, which is great for watching movies.

Thanks for your comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmwookie View Post

Skeletor you're in the same boat as me. My only difference is a lean towards external so I
can position my audio jack near the front of my desk. This isn't a must if compromising sound.

That does make sense, it also would keep things organized. I appreciate you giving me something else to consider for the situation. Luckily enough I do feel that there will not be any management issues with the current seating positions and the desk I am using. An audio jack on my desk would be a better place than in my computer, but I can live with it being outside. There is a 3 meter cable with my headphones, so there is plenty of room

Thank you for bringing that up!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloJoe6669 View Post

Xonar STX gets my vote

Thank you for your comments. This is where I am leaning.
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post #39 of 40
If you can't use the receiver, you can't go wrong with the Essence STX.
post #40 of 40
I do sound editing (recording, editing, mixing) and while I hate the term audiophile, I have gone through a lot of very high end gear... That doesn't necessarily mean that I am any more correct than anyone else, but I just wanted to put my experience into framework.

That said, for Gaming, the Titanium HD has been the absolute best card I've used, superior to even the Z/Zx (haven't spent enough timewwith the ZxR to give an accurate opinion). It's not as good as the HTO Claro Halo XT for music, but unless you have all your music kept in wav or FLAC or ape, I don't think you will hear a difference (I had to actively look for the difference, and I was using my Grade PS1000's and RS1i's). For film, it'sppretty much a wash as the sound quality really depends far more on the talent and experience of the engineers who did the original mastering than it does your sound card (and trust me, this varies a ridiculous amount). Most films are bass heavy anymore, so I recommend tweaking the equalizer to get the sound you want.

The Xonar STX is certainly a very good card, but unless you are using it for music more than 50 percent of the time, I would not recommend it. The Ti HD has superior positioning (it's incredibly accurate, while the Asus cards are all quite muddied in comparison), you won't get the joy of EAX when you play older games (and I really recommend playing through some older titles that support it should you get the Ti HD as its quite unique IMO), and if you need a headphone amp then buy a headphone amp, don't rely on the sound card to drive high impedance cans. Back to back, the Ti HD with even a "cheap" amp (FiiO E7 I believe) was immediately and unquestionably superior to the STX with its built in amp using everything from ultra low impedance high sensitivity phones to some of the most difficult to drive sub-$500 cans I know of.

I do suggest getting a second set of OP-AMPS for the Ti HD to swap out to see if you like the difference, and you can get a set of my preferred type from a member in the classifieds audio section (I like them best for music, they are not necessarily better for games, but the difference is subtle; you have good enough headphones that you should be able to hear it immediately though).

All in all, you already have great headphones (I have multiple pairs of AT cans that I use for pleasure as well as business), literally infinitely superior to any Beats by Dre (I produce better audio quality while sitting on the toilet) or Blows, sorry, Bose products. Now, you just need to have a source that is solid. The Titanium HDis only "high end sconsumer" card I recommend when a person is expecting to spend even 10pct of their time gaming, and I have never had a single person tell me that they thought it sounded worse than any other output they had used. In fact, all but one person has since asked my advice on "what are the absolute best headphones I can get for X amount? The sound is so good but my xxxx headphones are just holding it back!".

Oh, if you even remotely play online in a competitive way, the Ti HD demolish everything else. The positioning, sound separation, and quality of sound make it literally feel like cheating when playing against people who aren't using a good audio card because you hear them seconds before they can hear you.

Lastly, with the release of the Z cards (which, as I mentioned, are AT BEST a "side-grade" to the HD; audio products don't get better every 12mo like computers or cars, in fact I would say that the overall difference between $10k speakers and a $10k components setup from 2000 vs today is less than 5pct, actually I would bet that it's closer to 1 percent. That's a 1% increase in audio quality in 13 years. I know this because I have a very high end setup from 2002 and one that's 7mo old, and the ONLY reason I upgraded was because I wanted 13.4 channels for my home theater, more HDMI, and the better I/O selection of the newer receivers particularly wireless streaming and networking as I like being able to stream directly from my NAS or PC without having to touch either), the Ti HD can be had on sale for $99 almost weekly, making it bar none the best deal in computer audio of the last year.
I'm willing to bet that you won't need to replace it (as in upgrade) for the rest of the life of your computer, the following computer, and possibly even the introduction of a new interface standard, unless the card should somehow die.

That's my opinion, and while it's based on a lot of experience with nearly all current products and a buttload of older ones, it's still just an opinion. You can take it for however much or little you wish. I do suggest that you take any "advice" from people who think that Beats or Bose are good products with a handful of salt, because it's a good indication that they have zero experience (or they simply don't have good hearing or taste; it'd be like asking for car audio advice from the d-bag rolling in his Civic with the stock speakers but a $800 head unit controlling four amps pushing a combined 4kW to a quartet of 15" subs in the trunk, with no sound deadening, and which you can hear rattling the car apart from a thousand yards).
   
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