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Ubuntu, Unity, and WTph? - Page 2

post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

^ thats really a unity problem, so well you can fault Ubuntu for that it doesn't really extend to Lubuntu, Xubuntu, etc.
Of course it's a Ubuntu problem. It exists in Ubuntu, for Ubuntu and it's a problem. That's the very definition of a Ubuntu problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

I'm mainly disgusted at the internal choices made my the Ubuntu team. For the first time with Ubuntu for Phones I was looking forward to what they had to say, and in the end it's a GNU/Android hybrid that isn't compatible with either. Then theres Mir, which could fragment and whole Linux desktop cause Ubuntu had a NIH spaz. Thats why I hate Ubuntu, because not only do they make poor choices they make poor choices which could (needlessly and without any real improvement or advantage) fragment the rest of the GNU/Linux userland.
Totally.
post #12 of 22
^ sorry ment to say *buntu as in the rest of the *buntu family. Of course it's a problem with Ubuntu, although I never saw it as big as any of the problems they as shoving under the hood and to every one else around them.
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by czerro View Post

The average consumer, searching for gparted, in the application panel, wants to be returned 6 unrelated, peripherally linux related, books from amazon?

That's funding in action. In droid I'm bombarded by ads (mobile sites are the worst) and yet the consumer seems fine with it. That's my point. The market dictates what will happen and we either stay a consumer and accept that or become producers and change it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

^ thats really a unity problem, so well you can fault Ubuntu for that it doesn't really extend to Lubuntu, Xubuntu, etc.

I'm mainly disgusted at the internal choices made my the Ubuntu team. For the first time with Ubuntu for Phones I was looking forward to what they had to say, and in the end it's a GNU/Android hybrid that isn't compatible with either. Then theres Mir, which could fragment and whole Linux desktop cause Ubuntu had a NIH spaz. Thats why I hate Ubuntu, because not only do they make poor choices they make poor choices which could (needlessly and without any real improvement or advantage) fragment the rest of the GNU/Linux userland.

I'm torn as I feel like maybe Ubuntu has a chance to finally get people out of the MS/OSX duopoly and at the same time I agree that their Mir idea seems bad for needless reduplication of effort (unless they actually provide more than Wayland could) and that the phone really left me flustered as it just wasn't as I imagined. Granted...it supposed to somehow become a real Ubuntu ARM desktop when docked or at least that's how it comes off but still...lost steam there.
     
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post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by czerro View Post

The average consumer, searching for gparted, in the application panel, wants to be returned 6 unrelated, peripherally linux related, books from amazon?

That's funding in action. In droid I'm bombarded by ads (mobile sites are the worst) and yet the consumer seems fine with it. That's my point. The market dictates what will happen and we either stay a consumer and accept that or become producers and change it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

^ thats really a unity problem, so well you can fault Ubuntu for that it doesn't really extend to Lubuntu, Xubuntu, etc.

I'm mainly disgusted at the internal choices made my the Ubuntu team. For the first time with Ubuntu for Phones I was looking forward to what they had to say, and in the end it's a GNU/Android hybrid that isn't compatible with either. Then theres Mir, which could fragment and whole Linux desktop cause Ubuntu had a NIH spaz. Thats why I hate Ubuntu, because not only do they make poor choices they make poor choices which could (needlessly and without any real improvement or advantage) fragment the rest of the GNU/Linux userland.

I'm torn as I feel like maybe Ubuntu has a chance to finally get people out of the MS/OSX duopoly and at the same time I agree that their Mir idea seems bad for needless reduplication of effort (unless they actually provide more than Wayland could) and that the phone really left me flustered as it just wasn't as I imagined. Granted...it supposed to somehow become a real Ubuntu ARM desktop when docked or at least that's how it comes off but still...lost steam there.

If Ubuntu needs to become like OSX/Windows in order to compete with them, I could care less about the market percentages. a healthy growth, enough money to fund devs and run servers as all that matters.

as for better then wayland or a real ARM desktop, no. Mir might work for Ubuntu but will it work for anyone else? think about unity. and if I follow correctly I think the programs would still need to be compiled for Ubuntu Phone, not like you can just plug in and use the full Ubuntu ARM repos.
post #15 of 22
Why complain about Ubuntu there are so many other distros you can use.

You don't have to use Ubuntu.

EDIT: I should note that the Steam client on Ubuntu has major problems as well it isn't just mint, Fedora, etc.

Also I haven't tried it yet, but you might want to give Debian a try with the Steam client. as Squeeze uses the Gnome 2 interface. Not sure about Wheezy which is the lastest release in testing.
Edited by Bobicon - 3/23/13 at 8:26pm
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post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

If Ubuntu needs to become like OSX/Windows in order to compete with them, I could care less about the market percentages. a healthy growth, enough money to fund devs and run servers as all that matters.

as for better then wayland or a real ARM desktop, no. Mir might work for Ubuntu but will it work for anyone else? think about unity. and if I follow correctly I think the programs would still need to be compiled for Ubuntu Phone, not like you can just plug in and use the full Ubuntu ARM repos.

I hear you but the markets are becoming tainted with over-specialized apathetic consumers and they all want either dumb terminals/consumption devices (droid/iOS) or Windows/OSX like. Honestly, even though Linux has become far easier to use than I thought when I first started 3 years ago it still has a lot of overlooked issues.

So even if Mir somehow (unlikely I know) was able to be "better" in some way (not Canonical just saying that) you don't think it would have traction on the rest of the ecosystem? Yeah...it's probably wishful thinking on the phone front. Looks like my new nexus shall stay stock.
     
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post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobicon View Post

Why complain about Ubuntu there are so many other distros you can use.

You don't have to use Ubuntu.

EDIT: I should note that the Steam client on Ubuntu has major problems as well it isn't just mint, Fedora, etc.

Also I haven't tried it yet, but you might want to give Debian a try with the Steam client. as Squeeze uses the Gnome 2 interface. Not sure about Wheezy which is the lastest release in testing.

Yes, I discovered this. Mint, Fedora, etc, don't have the issues I experienced. It isn't really so much about Steam, but the experience that resulted from a simple install to see if I could get better compatibility with the experimental drivers on Ubuntu. Immediately, everything about Ubuntu is not functional. Gparted. Seriously? Rookie suggested I was a big dumby, for simply not expecting to manually partition and apt-get terminal in the first place. Why would I do that when the interface advertises an application panel? It doesn't even act like an application panel! What excuse is there that it didn't direct me to Synaptic or hyperlink me an apt-get button. That would actually make sense. I don't care about discussing spins as they aren't official. Ubuntu's flagship is what they want, and it's sad. Linux users are about functionality. If I wanted to barebones everything, I'd be using gentoo or arch. I'm the idiot that thinks the application panel might direct me to some applications rather than stores that have nothing to do with what I want? Unity: For Everyone...as long as you do everything through terminal and expect zero functionality and workflow from the forced interface. That's forward thinking. How about: "Canonical: Making Microsoft Look Smart." Or the apologetic, "Windows 8: At least it's not Unity".

Edit: It was way easier to go from format to install to Steam with Fedora and Opensuse and Mint-Cinammon. I knew going in, it was probably going to be rough to get radeon experimental builds for steam...but it was all actually very easy. Then I try Ubuntu, install is obnoxious, interface is garbage...and x drivers still don't work for the source games...

This isn't a 'different strokes' sorta situation. Mint is already transitioning to Debian. 2-3 years from now Ubuntu will be gone and we will have Mint upstream as Debian's community testing branch.
Edited by czerro - 3/26/13 at 2:43am
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by czerro View Post


This isn't a 'different strokes' sorta situation. Mint is already transitioning to Debian. 2-3 years from now Ubuntu will be gone and we will have Mint upstream as Debian's community testing branch.

links? I am pretty certain the plan is to continue having both Linux Mint and LMDE
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobicon View Post

Why complain about Ubuntu there are so many other distros you can use.

You don't have to use Ubuntu.

EDIT: I should note that the Steam client on Ubuntu has major problems as well it isn't just mint, Fedora, etc.

Also I haven't tried it yet, but you might want to give Debian a try with the Steam client. as Squeeze uses the Gnome 2 interface. Not sure about Wheezy which is the lastest release in testing.
Steam is working great in Debian Testing. The only problem I have is that I can't minimize steam to the tray, I get the window in my dock. I do have the tray icon working though, which apparently some distros have been having issues with.
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post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxcharon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobicon View Post

Why complain about Ubuntu there are so many other distros you can use.

You don't have to use Ubuntu.

EDIT: I should note that the Steam client on Ubuntu has major problems as well it isn't just mint, Fedora, etc.

Also I haven't tried it yet, but you might want to give Debian a try with the Steam client. as Squeeze uses the Gnome 2 interface. Not sure about Wheezy which is the lastest release in testing.
Steam is working great in Debian Testing. The only problem I have is that I can't minimize steam to the tray, I get the window in my dock. I do have the tray icon working though, which apparently some distros have been having issues with.

I had that problem with fedora
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