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[CNET] Internet tax proposal up for a vote in Senate this week - Page 17  

post #161 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

As I mentioned in the first part of my post, I don't think the government should have the right to tax at all.
I don't need street lights. Indeed most of my life I've lived where there were none. I don't need roads, I dumped my car a long time ago. I've had well water before (and I helped dig the well myself), and the municipal water I get now I pay for out of pocket, not though taxes.

I love to be the one to break it to you.....

That Municipal water you have, is backed by taxes. When you go to the grocery store and buy groceries, yup, taxes helped that happen as well. The internet connection you are using? Yup, taxes helped that as well. Like it or not, many of us don't, almost every person in this country needs the US Government to stay alive. There are very few of us that could survive in a situation where it no longer existed, and even those of us who have planned for that event still today utilize the services they provide throughout our day.

Personally, I know of 1 person (He is a bit loony toons) that truly is 100% self sufficient. Then again, for him to get to that point he had to utilize tech and works that were at one point Government backed.

thumb.gif

EDIT:

To follow up on a few other conversations about taxes and spending...

Income tax as a whole is wrong, for the places that have it, like Oregon. You create a situation of one group carrying the tax burden of everyone. In the case of income tax, those that work paying the way for everyone that doesn't work.

By enforcing sales tax, you put everyone on the same level, EVERYONE! If you spend your money, you pay your share of taxes. One of the major loop holes on the wealthy paying taxes is how they move their money, and avoid the income tax. If you have the tax at the sales level, then there isn't any way they can avoid paying that tax, it is levied when they buy something.

Same thing with people who refuse to work, and want to live off the system. Since they don't have "income" they aren't paying taxes. Catch them at the sales level, and they now contribute to the system.

Most people I run into that are strongly against a sales tax have never had to deal with a high income tax. Most don't even understand what an income tax is and how it works. In almost all situations when I explained it to them, they quickly said "I will keep my sales tax!".

But, everyone has different beliefs and opinions on how taxes should be handled. I don't think we will solve it here on OCN.

biggrin.gif
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 3/23/13 at 11:08am
    
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post #162 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I love to be the one to break it to you.....

That Municipal water you have, is backed by taxes. When you go to the grocery store and buy groceries, yup, taxes helped that happen as well. The internet connection you are using? Yup, taxes helped that as well.

Nothing has been broken to me. I am well aware of subsidies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Like it or not, many of us don't, almost every person in this country needs the US Government to stay alive.

The government providing some level of service for the tax money it takes, even necissary services, does not in any way imply that the government needs to be the only, or would be remotely the best, source of such services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

There are very few of us that could survive in a situation where it no longer existed, and even those of us who have planned for that event still today utilize the services they provide throughout our day.

Personally, I know of 1 person (He is a bit loony toons) that truly is 100% self sufficient. Then again, for him to get to that point he had to utilize tech and works that were at one point Government backed.

This isn't about self sufficiency or even doing without the services government currently monopolizes, and it never was.

It's about the viability of doing without government monopoly and extortion. I firmly believe we could maintain the same, or superior, standards of living without anything beyond purely voluntary, local, government.
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post #163 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

It's about the viability of doing without government monopoly and extortion. I firmly believe we could maintain the same, or superior, standards of living without anything beyond purely voluntary, local, government.

that's kind of what the middle ages were like. a lot of decentralized power, centered in the hands of local feudal lords. it kind of worked i guess, but not really the most efficient method of government. i mean with that decentralized system, there's so much potential for regional/local violence, security issues become way more complex.

in a modern context, that's laughable idealism. who's going to protect our nuclear arsenals? small, decentralized local governments heh.

not to mention that napoleon prove that small local government is just not competitive with more centralized nation states hundreds of years ago, when he defeated the feudal governments of europe several times
Edited by perfectblade - 3/23/13 at 11:28am
post #164 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

that's kind of what the middle ages were like. a lot of decentralized power, centered in the hands of local feudal lords. it kind of worked i guess, but not really the most efficient method of government. i mean with that decentralized system, there's so much potential for regional/local violence, security issues become way more complex.

in a modern context, that's laughable idealism. who's going to protect our nuclear arsenals? small, decentralized local governments heh.

not to mention that napoleon prove that small local government is just not competitive with more centralized nation states hundreds of years ago, when he defeated the feudal governments of europe several times

Yea.....Blameless is living on some fantasy island with his thoughts.
    
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post #165 of 243
I dont mind it at all. If an additional 8% tax is going to stop you from buying something, you probably cant afford it anyways and shouldnt have bought it to begin with. Where do you guys think the things that government does comes from? It all costs money. Taxes in the US are already insanely low compared to other countries, many of you need to wake up.
post #166 of 243
The "government is inefficient" argument is true. It needs to be more efficient. All over the world. Trust me, I'm Greek, I know about the public sector employees doing nothing, getting all the benefits and still whining. I also know about private citizens, tax evading for ages, yet deny that they are responsible for the economy's collapse - always eager to blame the bigger fish in the pond.

I live in the US now. I am astonished by fellow US citizens against taxation.

I am astonished how ppl in the US talk about displaced populations and immigrants (I am one) doing "ok".
I am astonished how ppl accept the privatization of esecially health care and still vote for less control of the government over it.

They are exactly like the 13yo who wants to run away from home and thinks things will be had both ways - freedom, doing w/e they want, be careless with their friends, getting a car, working a dream job, staying up late with the chick...right...

I honestly cannot believe when ppl write down that it is the Goverment(s) that they need protection from stealing their money, instead the corporations.
It is funny how they believe that the free market will regulate itself into serving the people, instead of the oligarchs controlling it.
It is funny how people believe that absolute democracy - i.e. mobs of the many against the few - promote equality, proper services, proper education, real freedom for most of the citizens. Take note: most of. Not the many, but nearly all. Without a goverment enforcing the constitution, without an public army or police or services, the many rule over the few with impunity.

And in super-capitalism, the many (those with the monies that is) will rule over the poor (i.e. 2% vs. 98% or w/e frightening ratio) with imputiny. F wellfare, equality, education, overall progress. It is all about conservatism, in the bad way (i.e. me still be getting richer by suppressing you getting richer, me securing the patents, me keeping you enslaved to w/e I provide and you cannot have unless you pay dearly for).

But ofc, in the US no-one is poor. Noone is displaced. All have access to health and education. All are millionaires with cash shortages. All believe that there are still aces in the deck for them to draw.
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post #167 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

that's kind of what the middle ages were like. a lot of decentralized power, centered in the hands of local feudal lords. it kind of worked i guess, but not really the most efficient method of government.

Lack of big government doesn't automatically imply feudalism either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtolios View Post

I honestly cannot believe when ppl write down that it is the Goverment(s) that they need protection from stealing their money, instead the corporations.

False distinction.

The federal government is essentially a corporation that monopolizes the use of force to achieve it's ends. No other corporation or business I've ever encountered can legally force me to buy their product, or throw me in prison and take all my stuff if I refuse what they are selling.
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post #168 of 243
I hope you all realize that you're supposed to be paying taxes on every online purchase anyway.

That is the law. You are to declare every online purchase and pay the applicable tax at the end of the tax year. This law has not been enforced , nobody was following it. Now it will be enforced by default by collection from the seller.

While it was nice to not pay taxes, we all knew it would end. Whining about it is pointless.
Edited by xoleras - 3/23/13 at 12:53pm
post #169 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Lack of big government doesn't automatically imply feudalism either.
False distinction.

sure it doesn't inherently, but it's easy to see how issues that were common in feudal times were caused by the lack of a strong central government. like political instability etc
post #170 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

I hope you all realize that you're supposed to be paying taxes on every online purchase anyway.

That is the law. You are to declare every online purchase and pay the applicable tax at the end of the tax year.

This law has not been enforced , nobody was following it.

No one cares about laws that aren't enforced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Now it will be enforced by default by collection from the seller.

To no one's benefit, except perhaps brick and mortar stores clinging to aged, uncompetitive, business models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Whining about it is pointless.

That depends on whether whining it produces action or not.

Enforcement may not last long if it turns out to be more harmful to business and revenue than non-enforcement was.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [CNET] Internet tax proposal up for a vote in Senate this week